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On the foil but unable to go upwind!?

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plummet
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On the foil but unable to go upwind!?

Postby plummet » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:25 am

I had a weird situation today. Wind was 6-9 knots. So pretty light. But not light enough for the kite to fall out of the sky. I could loop a couple of times and get up on the foil and foil along. I was zooming along at maybe 30-40 kph.

So everything seemed ok. But i wasnt staying upwind. Every tack back to the beach would see me further downwind. I felt like i was going upwind, The kite felt like it was powered enough, I was going fast enough but no. Walk shame it was.

This is weird for me. Every other time i've been able to get up on the foil ive been able to crank upwind.

Has this happened to others? Was it just too light? maybe lulls that i didnt feel.

Oh i was flying my 12 chrono and home made mid aspect foil. Weird thing is ive done lighter wind and still been able to go upwind. Maybe a current in the sea?

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Re: On the foil but unable to go upwind!?

Postby windmaker » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:40 am

Sounds like impossible and really strange :). Even in the lightest wind if there is enough speed to get flying , a foil will go upwind. If it was current, must have been really strong!

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Re: On the foil but unable to go upwind!?

Postby max » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:10 am

plummet wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:25 am


So everything seemed ok. But i wasnt staying upwind. Every tack back to the beach would see me further downwind. I felt like i was going upwind, The kite felt like it was powered enough, I was going fast enough but no. Walk shame it was.


sounds like a bad dream :)

Strong currents would be the only thing that makes sense. Was anyone else out that you could have compared yourself to?

plummet
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Re: On the foil but unable to go upwind!?

Postby plummet » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:21 am

It's just plain weird. No others out.

I wonder if it was temp and humidity combined. It's was about 30 deg and quite humid. Maybe a gutless 8 knots.

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Re: On the foil but unable to go upwind!?

Postby joriws » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:44 am

You rode too fast and rotated wind window too much for upwind course. And/or current.

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Horst Sergio
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Re: On the foil but unable to go upwind!?

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:04 pm

Hi Plummet,
sounds strange but if it is a combination of many things it could be possible:

1. as joriws said: if you are on the boarder to go upwind it is nothing about speed but all about angle so you have to lower the speed (as long you have still a harmonic current around your foil) to normally around 25 km/h to improve the angle towards the wind. This is just a clear geometric principle. So maybe you really have been to fast

2. there are spots and situations where you don't have to much current close to the beach where you better see it but heavily outside. Maybe this was the case, but could have been seen if you make a constant bearing when beeing outside watching the beach while sitting on the board.

3. and 4.
By all respect to your self build foil. It can be that the foil and also the foil kite have just a very low angle of glide due to design or use. I have driven low performance foils as the first Liquid Force and also no strut kites with very low angle of glide.

Happily never combined both, but if I would have done, combined with point 1 and 2 I could imagine to be able to ride but not upwind.

If your upwind tracks under good conditions don't look close to this combination of an very high performance foil with a pretty low performance kite (Wave Kite with AR 3,5) in not perfect conditions:
Track-Mono-&-Wave-4,5.jpg


Then it can be worth to check your foil and your Chrono:

If the bridle of Chrono has seen much use and was folded to often it can be so much out of shape that the original high performance of the kite is lost, try to check the mixer, and if you are not affraid of the effort do a "long mixer test" or give it to someone who knows the kite well in good condition.

Good luck

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Re: On the foil but unable to go upwind!?

Postby davesails7 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:32 pm

I've had this happen at the absolute low end with some current. Even on a race foil and race kite I get to a point where I'm barely holding ground upwind in very light wind. When the wind is really light, and you're going 2.5x or 3x faster than the wind, the apparent wind angle shifts way around in front of you.

The kite only cares about the apparent wind angle. In 6 knots of wind, If you're riding at 15 knots at 90 deg to the wind, the apparent wind angle is only 25 degrees which probably isn't doable.

Here's an apparent wind angle calculator to play around with:
http://www.hydesailsdirect.com/Articles.asp?ID=278

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Re: On the foil but unable to go upwind!?

Postby junebug » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:49 pm

plummet wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:25 am
I had a weird situation today. Wind was 6-9 knots. So pretty light. But not light enough for the kite to fall out of the sky. I could loop a couple of times and get up on the foil and foil along. I was zooming along at maybe 30-40 kph.

So everything seemed ok. But i wasnt staying upwind. Every tack back to the beach would see me further downwind. I felt like i was going upwind, The kite felt like it was powered enough, I was going fast enough but no. Walk shame it was.

This is weird for me. Every other time i've been able to get up on the foil ive been able to crank upwind.

Has this happened to others? Was it just too light? maybe lulls that i didnt feel.

Oh i was flying my 12 chrono and home made mid aspect foil. Weird thing is ive done lighter wind and still been able to go upwind. Maybe a current in the sea?
The tidal current can be very strong where I live, so this happens to me often when the tidal current and wind are coming from the same direction. In fact, yesterday I was foiling in a deep inlet through sandbars with the tidal current and wind in same direction in 15-16kn winds on 9m LEI and barely able to go upwind. If I botched a turn and touched down, fuggetaboutit, I would lose ground on that tack.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: On the foil but unable to go upwind!?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:01 pm

plummet wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:25 am
I had a weird situation today. Wind was 6-9 knots. So pretty light. But not light enough for the kite to fall out of the sky. I could loop a couple of times and get up on the foil and foil along. I was zooming along at maybe 30-40 kph.

So everything seemed ok. But i wasnt staying upwind. Every tack back to the beach would see me further downwind. I felt like i was going upwind, The kite felt like it was powered enough, I was going fast enough but no. Walk shame it was.

This is weird for me. Every other time i've been able to get up on the foil ive been able to crank upwind.

Has this happened to others? Was it just too light? maybe lulls that i didnt feel.

Oh i was flying my 12 chrono and home made mid aspect foil. Weird thing is ive done lighter wind and still been able to go upwind. Maybe a current in the sea?
Seems impossible to me, even in marginal conditions and really underpowered, if i can foil i can go upwind. So really strong tidal current or some weird performance problem of the foil...

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Re: On the foil but unable to go upwind!?

Postby PullStrings » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:57 pm

plummet wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:25 am
Has this happened to others? Was it just too light? maybe lulls that i didnt feel.
Oh i was flying my 12 chrono and home made mid aspect foil. Weird thing is ive done lighter wind and still been able to go upwind. Maybe a current in the sea?
Was there a stronger wind a day or two before and there is residual current or drift leftover ?
All 8 knots aren't created equal since you've done good before
Some of them are sucker winds that are gutless....thin air...warm air over warm water..typical in heat of summer.. and others are powerful dense and gradient usually over colder water
We all have done the walk of shame when pushing the low end...the worst is too have clueless beachgoer ask you as you walk if this is fun or is it too windy today..and how much is it..& hard to do ?


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