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what size kite to learn, 215lbs, 10-14kts?

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Bletti
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Re: what size kite to learn, 215lbs, 10-14kts?

Postby Bletti » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:37 pm

I was on winds like that today on my brm cloud d 13.4m and it was awesome!

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Re: what size kite to learn, 215lbs, 10-14kts?

Postby oz43 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:13 pm

pixelpedro wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:43 pm
When I picked up foiling I was 220 and got a LF solo 15.5 and the orange foil fish setup, the first few times out the 15 was great cause it got me out in the 10-14kts I needed the extra power while I figured things out, but gotta tell you that was short lived, once I figured things out (prob in about 5 full day sessions) even @ my weight my go to kite was a 9m solo I had to buy for the 12-16kts the 15.5 was reduced to only getting out in 8-11kts cause right at the 11-12 kts-ish I was lit on the 15 and I'd switch to the 9m, I sold the 15 with maybe 10 sessions on it cause I'd never take it out, didn't have to.

I'm not an expert at all but my opinion/advice, I would do is to stick with ur current quiver and rough through the learning process with the 12 (which BTW shouldn't be that bad or long) you'll see once u get the technique of foiling finessed you'll probably be using the drifter the most in that windrange, providing the drifter is light enough to stay up in that sort of wind and if not I would highly recommend taking a look at the solo that kite is crazy light and really does pull hard for the size.

I think that the size alone isn't that important as the type of kite + size, I don't like having too much gear so I'd later switch my quiver a bit to be a little more all arounder and got RPMs and my 9m RPM definitely wasn't nearly as efficient as the 9m solo was for foiling.

Foiling is truly a game changer, I don't foil anymore cause I lost interest and I have a new obsession that I'd rather be messing around with when the wind is that light but it is truly a magical experience when ur out when usually you wouldn't even consider looking at windalert cause u know it's way too light and ur out on a tiny ass kite and ur out having fun going freaky fast in that light of wind.

Hope this helped. Have fun it's a well worth journey.

Interesting, that's what I was afraid of happening. Thing with me is I am looking for a new 12 or 13 anyways. Put on about 15lbs since I bought this kite and getting left on the beach more and more it seems, plus it's old and tired, and some of the more aggressive features that appealed to me when I bought it, don't anymore. Our main local kite spot is a great thermal, flatwater spot but it's shallow and tidal, sand bars, debris etc. so no good for foiling. I need my big kite to have some free ride performance; fast(ish) turning, decent hang time (not necessarily boost height), and light weight so it can serve the sea breeze foiling days. Maybe I am searching for a unicorn and need to have two bigs kites?

Have you seen any one particular one strut or no strut kite that seems to perform better than the rest for free ride?

So do you say you're down to a 9m RPM, and that's it? The board I'm looking at is the Nobile split foil, and the dream is to have a one kite travel set up. When the wind comes up too much, take the foil off and ride the board only. I'm hoping this will take me from about 12kts to 28kts. I'm thinking the 10m drifter will do nicely, particularly as the waves come up. Anyways, thanks for the tips. It's beginning to come together in my head. Just gotta read another 100 threads or so and I should be good 😜


Cheers,

K

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Re: what size kite to learn, 215lbs, 10-14kts?

Postby oz43 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:23 pm

Bletti wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:37 pm
I was on winds like that today on my brm cloud d 13.4m and it was awesome!

Nice, do you ever ride TT or strapless surf on it as well? I'm hoping to find one of these ultra light kites in around that size that can make the crossover somewhat and still be fun for doing smooth, styley jump transitions and airs.

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Re: what size kite to learn, 215lbs, 10-14kts?

Postby pixelpedro » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:03 pm

oz43 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:13 pm
Interesting, that's what I was afraid of happening. Thing with me is I am looking for a new 12 or 13 anyways. Put on about 15lbs since I bought this kite and getting left on the beach more and more it seems, plus it's old and tired, and some of the more aggressive features that appealed to me when I bought it, don't anymore. Our main local kite spot is a great thermal, flatwater spot but it's shallow and tidal, sand bars, debris etc. so no good for foiling. I need my big kite to have some free ride performance; fast(ish) turning, decent hang time (not necessarily boost height), and light weight so it can serve the sea breeze foiling days. Maybe I am searching for a unicorn and need to have two bigs kites?

Have you seen any one particular one strut or no strut kite that seems to perform better than the rest for free ride?

So do you say you're down to a 9m RPM, and that's it? The board I'm looking at is the Nobile split foil, and the dream is to have a one kite travel set up. When the wind comes up too much, take the foil off and ride the board only. I'm hoping this will take me from about 12kts to 28kts. I'm thinking the 10m drifter will do nicely, particularly as the waves come up. Anyways, thanks for the tips. It's beginning to come together in my head. Just gotta read another 100 threads or so and I should be good 😜

Cheers,
K
Someone else suggested to try foiling with what you have first and go from there, that's exactly what I would do now if I was getting into foiling. I know there a lot of variants like I mentioned previously the type of kite, size but also the type of foil I know the LF fish foil is a super easy foil to learn on (or so I hear) cause of the low aspect wing all u really need is a bit of forward momentum and switch ur weight back a tad to lift, adjust and boom ur up on the foil the rest is technique staying there so the Nobile may be different but the LF foil is fun as heck to foil and I know is not super fast - although it feels ur going crazy fast on nukkn days - is not where near as fast and the high aspect wings.

I don't have any experience with strutless kites but I do highly recommend the solo's (no affiliation whatsoever to LF, I'm actually a Slingshot lover) my only issue with the 15.5 solo was that in super light winds in the 8-10kts when the kite goes down in the water the canopy hangs in the water and all that fabric gets wet making it heavier for the lighter winds and it just doesn't wanna relaunch just gets stuck to the water and even when it turns seems like it's doesn't wanna go up, but when the solos are reasonably powered this isn't an issue at all.

The solo was a crazy fun kite, they're quick (the 9 is crazy twitchy quick) and they pull super hard.

Nah my quiver consists of 12/9 RPMs I was only comparing the 9m solo vs 9m RPM which for foiling I found the Solo to be leaps more efficient. I actually played around with this once and in 12kts the 9 RPM was a handful to keep up in the sky while foiling, while the solo was effortless kiting in these conditions with a foil. But I understood that the RPM is a totally different style of kite with more added weight and a different profile that just wasn't suited for foiling in these light winds.

Wow ... 12-28 may be asking miracles of your gear but I think it all depends if the drifter can stay up in that light of wind and generate the pull you need to get up on foil, if I were you give it a shot before you go switching ur quiver around, hell you may even not like foiling HAHA.

Maybe while learning go out when ur reasonably powered on the 12, cause u do almost want to be a little bit overpowered when learning to not worry about the kite and just focus on the board; and once you get used to riding then start to play with the smaller kite. Point is: don't go rushing to get a bigger a kite just yet as you may realize (as I did) that you may not need it.

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Re: what size kite to learn, 215lbs, 10-14kts?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:27 pm

oz43 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:59 pm
    Hello All,

    Looking to get into foiling and would like to know what guys my size (215 lbs dry) are using to learn to foil in 10-14 kts? My quiver is down to a 2012 OR Razor 12m and a 2018 10m Drifter. I'm skeptical either will get my ass out of the water at that wind speed... any kite suggestions?

    Specifically, if anyone my size rides a 10m drifter or similar surf kite for foiling, I would love to know their wind range on it when learning or up and riding.


    Cheers,

    K

    Short answer is: You will do just fine with your current kites !

    The 12 wont work in 10 knots when learning, but hardly anything will, so wait till 12-14...

    For 14 knots it is just perfect for learning at 215 lbs with the 12, but not in less wind at first stages.

    When you have learned, you can maybe ride it down to 11 knots but that would be it...

    At that time you will have found out which "marginal" wind kite you want, either a foil kite or a light 15 m2 LEI would be spot on for you.

    You dont write anything about your hydrofoil ?
    As IF you got a similar bigger wing, things will change dramatically, and you can probably ride in just as low winds as us medium weights, meaning down to 8 knots with a 12 :thumb:

    One thing you should do right away: Make your lines longer, extensions probably, so they are 27 to 30 meter.

    It will very very fast become a game changer when learning, after the initial fooling around, as you got so much more power to get up on the foil, and you wont be overpowered once up and riding, and when learning you can avoid the kite getting in the drink whenever you crash - and you WILL crash a lot :naughty:

    I never ride shorter than 26 m even after many years, also on my 3.5 m2 - but this is personal liking, some prefer shorter lines.

    Your 10 m2 Drifter is an awesome kite, and you will be able to ride with the 10 in something like 12 up to maybe 20 knots is my prediction, for your 215 lbs.

    But when reaching 17-18 knots you exceed the sweetspot for your 10 m2 IMO...

    I ride A LOT, and have found (for my specific way of riding), that when the wind is where too much for my foil kite, I can not ride the same kite on a surf/waveboard :roll:
    Close, but not fully.
    Some has said they can do this easily, but not for me nope, so difficult to say what is right and wrong here.
    I dont like NOT being able to go well upwind on my waveboard, and prefer to ride in the "wave" sweetspot on my hydrofoils, so maybe that is a difference - dont know :wink:

    8) PF

    oz43
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    Re: what size kite to learn, 215lbs, 10-14kts?

    Postby oz43 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:31 pm

    pixelpedro wrote:
    Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:03 pm
    oz43 wrote:
    Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:13 pm
    Interesting, that's what I was afraid of happening. Thing with me is I am looking for a new 12 or 13 anyways. Put on about 15lbs since I bought this kite and getting left on the beach more and more it seems, plus it's old and tired, and some of the more aggressive features that appealed to me when I bought it, don't anymore. Our main local kite spot is a great thermal, flatwater spot but it's shallow and tidal, sand bars, debris etc. so no good for foiling. I need my big kite to have some free ride performance; fast(ish) turning, decent hang time (not necessarily boost height), and light weight so it can serve the sea breeze foiling days. Maybe I am searching for a unicorn and need to have two bigs kites?

    Have you seen any one particular one strut or no strut kite that seems to perform better than the rest for free ride?

    So do you say you're down to a 9m RPM, and that's it? The board I'm looking at is the Nobile split foil, and the dream is to have a one kite travel set up. When the wind comes up too much, take the foil off and ride the board only. I'm hoping this will take me from about 12kts to 28kts. I'm thinking the 10m drifter will do nicely, particularly as the waves come up. Anyways, thanks for the tips. It's beginning to come together in my head. Just gotta read another 100 threads or so and I should be good 😜

    Cheers,
    K
    Someone else suggested to try foiling with what you have first and go from there, that's exactly what I would do now if I was getting into foiling. I know there a lot of variants like I mentioned previously the type of kite, size but also the type of foil I know the LF fish foil is a super easy foil to learn on (or so I hear) cause of the low aspect wing all u really need is a bit of forward momentum and switch ur weight back a tad to lift, adjust and boom ur up on the foil the rest is technique staying there so the Nobile may be different but the LF foil is fun as heck to foil and I know is not super fast - although it feels ur going crazy fast on nukkn days - is not where near as fast and the high aspect wings.

    I don't have any experience with strutless kites but I do highly recommend the solo's (no affiliation whatsoever to LF, I'm actually a Slingshot lover) my only issue with the 15.5 solo was that in super light winds in the 8-10kts when the kite goes down in the water the canopy hangs in the water and all that fabric gets wet making it heavier for the lighter winds and it just doesn't wanna relaunch just gets stuck to the water and even when it turns seems like it's doesn't wanna go up, but when the solos are reasonably powered this isn't an issue at all.

    The solo was a crazy fun kite, they're quick (the 9 is crazy twitchy quick) and they pull super hard.

    Nah my quiver consists of 12/9 RPMs I was only comparing the 9m solo vs 9m RPM which for foiling I found the Solo to be leaps more efficient. I actually played around with this once and in 12kts the 9 RPM was a handful to keep up in the sky while foiling, while the solo was effortless kiting in these conditions with a foil. But I understood that the RPM is a totally different style of kite with more added weight and a different profile that just wasn't suited for foiling in these light winds.

    Wow ... 12-28 may be asking miracles of your gear but I think it all depends if the drifter can stay up in that light of wind and generate the pull you need to get up on foil, if I were you give it a shot before you go switching ur quiver around, hell you may even not like foiling HAHA.

    Maybe while learning go out when ur reasonably powered on the 12, cause u do almost want to be a little bit overpowered when learning to not worry about the kite and just focus on the board; and once you get used to riding then start to play with the smaller kite. Point is: don't go rushing to get a bigger a kite just yet as you may realize (as I did) that you may not need it.
    Sounds like pretty solid advice. The last thing I want to do is buy a kite that's ill just end up selling. My home area isn't even good for foiling so this may only be something I do a few times a year, and ya, maybe I won't like it that much, and wind up chasing pure wave spots for kite vacations, who knows? This wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the fact that it looks like I am going to be spending the summer in a very good foiling spot near a big bay with a consistent sea breeze and about 30% days over 16kts. I suppose I could wait for those days to use my 12 but they might not be that easy to predict, I don't know yet. Whereas it sounds like 10-11 kt sea breeze is most everyday...

    It's all good, I just don't want to squander this opportunity because my home spot would be gnarly to learn. I think the smart move is to use what I have for now.

    Thanks Pixel

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    Re: what size kite to learn, 215lbs, 10-14kts?

    Postby slowboat » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:42 pm

    Avoid the mistake I made when first learning: trying to use too small of a kite (based on what experienced foilers where doing). When you first start, you should use the same kite you would for a twin tip. Park your kite and focus on keeping foilboard on the water until you can do this for long distances in both directions, then start allowing the foil to come up a little at a time. Only when you have some reasonable pitch control, should you start considering using a smaller kite to take advantage of the low resistance on foil. If you have to be constantly diving your kite to keep powered, learning foil control will be very difficult.

    oz43
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    Re: what size kite to learn, 215lbs, 10-14kts?

    Postby oz43 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:51 pm

    Peter_Frank wrote:
    Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:27 pm
    oz43 wrote:
    Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:59 pm
      Hello All,

      Looking to get into foiling and would like to know what guys my size (215 lbs dry) are using to learn to foil in 10-14 kts? My quiver is down to a 2012 OR Razor 12m and a 2018 10m Drifter. I'm skeptical either will get my ass out of the water at that wind speed... any kite suggestions?

      Specifically, if anyone my size rides a 10m drifter or similar surf kite for foiling, I would love to know their wind range on it when learning or up and riding.


      Cheers,

      K

      Short answer is: You will do just fine with your current kites !

      The 12 wont work in 10 knots when learning, but hardly anything will, so wait till 12-14...

      For 14 knots it is just perfect for learning at 215 lbs with the 12, but not in less wind at first stages.

      When you have learned, you can maybe ride it down to 11 knots but that would be it...

      At that time you will have found out which "marginal" wind kite you want, either a foil kite or a light 15 m2 LEI would be spot on for you.

      You dont write anything about your hydrofoil ?
      As IF you got a similar bigger wing, things will change dramatically, and you can probably ride in just as low winds as us medium weights, meaning down to 8 knots with a 12 :thumb:

      One thing you should do right away: Make your lines longer, extensions probably, so they are 27 to 30 meter.

      It will very very fast become a game changer when learning, after the initial fooling around, as you got so much more power to get up on the foil, and you wont be overpowered once up and riding, and when learning you can avoid the kite getting in the drink whenever you crash - and you WILL crash a lot :naughty:

      I never ride shorter than 26 m even after many years, also on my 3.5 m2 - but this is personal liking, some prefer shorter lines.

      Your 10 m2 Drifter is an awesome kite, and you will be able to ride with the 10 in something like 12 up to maybe 20 knots is my prediction, for your 215 lbs.

      But when reaching 17-18 knots you exceed the sweetspot for your 10 m2 IMO...

      I ride A LOT, and have found (for my specific way of riding), that when the wind is where too much for my foil kite, I can not ride the same kite on a surf/waveboard :roll:
      Close, but not fully.
      Some has said they can do this easily, but not for me nope, so difficult to say what is right and wrong here.
      I dont like NOT being able to go well upwind on my waveboard, and prefer to ride in the "wave" sweetspot on my hydrofoils, so maybe that is a difference - dont know :wink:

      8) PF

      Hi Peter,

      Thanks for the reply, the board I'm looking at is the nobile infinity split foil with probably the All Around wing as it is the biggest. There's a Freeride wing also that is sort of medium size that gives me pause thinking maybe I should skip to that one to start?

      As for one kite/two boards quiver, your experience is helpful. Time will tell if that's even necessary, really depends on the location. Thinking strongly about sticking with what I have for now.

      I will definitely look at lengthening my lines. I have a couple sets of extension kicking around so no worries there. My 12m has below average de-power I would say. Won't lengthening my line also create more power, thus exacerbating the limited de-power if I over steer or something?

      Thank you for your help,

      Cheers

      oz43
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      Re: what size kite to learn, 215lbs, 10-14kts?

      Postby oz43 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:04 pm

      slowboat wrote:
      Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:42 pm
      Avoid the mistake I made when first learning: trying to use too small of a kite (based on what experienced foilers where doing). When you first start, you should use the same kite you would for a twin tip. Park your kite and focus on keeping foilboard on the water until you can do this for long distances in both directions, then start allowing the foil to come up a little at a time. Only when you have some reasonable pitch control, should you start considering using a smaller kite to take advantage of the low resistance on foil. If you have to be constantly diving your kite to keep powered, learning foil control will be very difficult.
      I usually don't go on my twin until about 17 kts. Can't see waiting for that to try foiling, I might never learn at that rate where I'm going, plus it's getting choppy and gross by then.. Your approach is shared by quite a few on this forum. It's the approach I plan to take, as it seems to be the most consistently voiced. Which is kinda why I wanted a bigger kite, but damn near everyone figures I should learn on what I have. Problem is, I feel I've grown 🍺🍕 out of what I have a little bit..😬, and I was looking to update anyways.

      Ah well, I'll figure it out, your advice is helpful, thank you.

      Cheers,

      K

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      Peter_Frank
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      Re: what size kite to learn, 215lbs, 10-14kts?

      Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:28 pm

      Hello oz43

      No, longer lines wont give you less depower.

      If you are seriously overpowered, maybe on purpose for speed and jumping, yes, longer lines will make you able to ride in more wind, as the power can be "shut down" very fast.

      But otherwiser, you have the very same power with short and long lines when the kite is parked - difference is, that with longer lines you get so much more power for the takeoff, for a longer time, thus way easier.
      Apart from, as I wrote, the ability to keep the kite from going into the water....

      So not in doubt, use longer lines and your 12.

      You write that you dont know how much you are gonna foil ?

      He hee, when you have learned, you almost dont want to do anything else, trust me :naughty:

      8) PF


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