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down wind foiling

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slowboat
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down wind foiling

Postby slowboat » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:36 am

My abilities so far are good straight line pitch control, pretty consistent heel to toeside carving turns and comfortable riding toeside but no clue on how to go downwind without stalling due to loss of line tension. It seems that one answer is downlooping and would appreciate a very basic explanation on how to do this. Am I keeping the kite on one side of the window or crossing the window when I downloop going downwind? Should kite be high in general going downwind? Is all this easier heelside or toeside? Any other techniques besides downlooping? Just drifting kite is fun but always ends in an uncontrolled stall for me. Thanks

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Peter_Frank
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Re: down wind foiling

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:50 pm

slowboat wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:36 am
My abilities so far are good straight line pitch control, pretty consistent heel to toeside carving turns and comfortable riding toeside but no clue on how to go downwind without stalling due to loss of line tension. It seems that one answer is downlooping and would appreciate a very basic explanation on how to do this. Am I keeping the kite on one side of the window or crossing the window when I downloop going downwind? Should kite be high in general going downwind? Is all this easier heelside or toeside? Any other techniques besides downlooping? Just drifting kite is fun but always ends in an uncontrolled stall for me. Thanks

Will give my cents...

You go too slow, thats the only problem :D

For one, keep the kite quite high 45 degree or a bit more also ok, and bearing off so much that you dont go rocket speed, but not too much so you stall - is by far the easiest and safest way to ride downwind, heelside :thumb:
Keeping the kite low is even better if good speed, but there is a huge risk it ends up in the drink, and rolls over, and a lot of cluttering - otherwise keeping it lower when at speed is just fine and how racers do.

But you also ask for what to do "next" when you got that one nailed I assume ?

Down and uplooping when going downwind, is fun, and usually you do one or two downloops first, and then uploops (or what you call it) the other way so you dont have to spin the bar. Or reverse.
Doing this you will often have to change path during the loop - and it will take you some time to learn the timing, as the kite reacts VERY differently during the loop, no matter which way around.
A bit more difficult actually, than riding straight.
You might be able, when you get really good, to go deeper this way (but not higher VMG).

Finally you can do carving fluid S turns without jibing, with downloops deep downwind, really fun.
Ride with kite at your preferred height when going downwind quite deep and not too slow, and fly it up really high just before the carve/loop, and then carve to the new tack and downloop just a tad after your carve - this way you avoid stalling the kite during the turn and lines stay tight.
You ride toeside on the new tack now, deep downwind, fly the kite slowly up high, and now you can carve back again, letting the kite downloop af "follow" you.
This deep S turning is awesome, and the fastest way to get downwind as close to a straight line as possible, I think.
Important NOT to downloop before you turn, or try to do it simultaneously, at first, as then you WILL get a stalled kite midway and it will go directly down in the water - aaaargh :o
The secret is the timing, that you keep linetension by means of delaying the downloop a bit, relative to your carve/turn.

Good luck :rollgrin:

8) PF

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Re: down wind foiling

Postby Mossy 757 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:12 pm

Speed up^

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Re: down wind foiling

Postby plummet » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:50 pm

Same as going downwind on a normal board. Except the foil is so efficient that the kite can easily pull to you to slack lines. Keep em tensioned by carving and looping.

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Re: down wind foiling

Postby juandesooka » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:32 pm

If you don't want to loop, can keep line tension going downwind more with carving s turns, following the kite thorough turns. Helps to have a strong drifting kite -- wave kites. But also: a larger kite to keep more power in the kite helps keep line tension. I suspect I may rig a kite size higher than some of the more extreme foilers. This may mean having full trim set for going upwind but then releasing half the depower for the downwind run. In extreme light wind, I find the kite will fly great upwind with all the apparent wind generated, but then as soon as you turn, there's nothing there, no power no pull and the kite threatens to back stall. That's where the looping comes in -- or continual figure 8s to keep the kite active and flying forward. And like plummet says, that's the same problem if you're in light wind on a surfboard or twintip, just more pronounced.

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Re: down wind foiling

Postby evan » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:20 pm

Speed: the faster you go the deeper you can point. It is all about shifting the apparent wind to a Downwind vector.

Often see guys trying to point deep at slow speed following their kite, with loss of line tension and stalling like you. Try to go as fast you dare on only a slightly Downwind heading or even half wind when not overpowerd. Then slowly bear off Downwind and increase your speed even further when slowly going deeper and deeper until you go deeper than you could have ever imagined.

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Re: down wind foiling

Postby slowboat » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:34 am

juandesooka wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:32 pm
If you don't want to loop, can keep line tension going downwind more with carving s turns, following the kite thorough turns.
With S turns downwind, is your kite crossing the window?

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Re: down wind foiling

Postby NorCalNomad » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:03 am

slowboat wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:34 am
juandesooka wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:32 pm
If you don't want to loop, can keep line tension going downwind more with carving s turns, following the kite thorough turns.
With S turns downwind, is your kite crossing the window?
no

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Re: down wind foiling

Postby juandesooka » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:12 am

slowboat wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:34 am
juandesooka wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:32 pm
If you don't want to loop, can keep line tension going downwind more with carving s turns, following the kite thorough turns.
With S turns downwind, is your kite crossing the window?
for me it is. But maybe we are talking about different things. I am not racing downwind. More like zigzaging in swells, front side carve, backside carve combinations, ideally staying with the same swell train for a couple km. I follow the kite similar to a surfboard, more or less with nose of board always pointing at kite through turns.

slowboat
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Re: down wind foiling

Postby slowboat » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:30 am

NorCalNomad wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:03 am
slowboat wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:34 am
juandesooka wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:32 pm
If you don't want to loop, can keep line tension going downwind more with carving s turns, following the kite thorough turns.
With S turns downwind, is your kite crossing the window?
no
Yeah, I think keeping the kite on one side is easier to learn. When I try this I find that as is carve upwind, I get line tension and feels good but then when I carve back towards the kite I lose the tension.....I guess I should be doing more with the kite?


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