Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Kite for 18+ knots

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders


junebug
Frequent Poster
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:14 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Gear: Twintip
Foil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby junebug » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:51 pm

I ride a LF Solo 4.5m in 18kn+. I would have preferred a 5m kite, but I found the 4.5m at a stupid discount price that I felt like I couldn’t pass up. I’m a little underpowered at 18kn, but by 20kn I’m in the sweet spot. I have to pump it up firm so it doesn’t fold on water starts and it generally loops with more power than I like. If I had to do all over again, I probably would hold out for a 5m so the gap below 7m wasn’t so big.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8776
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:58 pm

It actually fits very well with math....

If you say ride a 12 m2 in 10 knots spot on, then a 6.2 m2 will have the same power when 18 knots, taking the apparent wind into consideration too.
Some ride a 10 m2 in 10 knots, so here a 5.2 m2 would have same power in 18 knots wind, and of course you can ride with a 4.5 eventhough you have to work it a bit yes.

In 20-21 knots your 4.5 would probably be spot on, according to vector calculations :thumb:

Not that I am using these to select kite sizes, but nice to see they fit spot on with the sizes one chooses :D

8) PF

plummet
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6045
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm
Kiting since: 33
Local Beach: EE
Favorite Beaches: NZ
Style: Terrain riding
Gear: Old wornout ozone.
Plummet hydrofoil and mutant
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby plummet » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:07 am

Pedro Marcos wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:42 am
plummet wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:21 am
Why are you guys over powered on a 6m in 18 knots?

Are you using massive wings? Are your foils set up with too much aoa on the rear wing or do you simply have poor speed control?

I'm still on the 8m and loving it in 18 knots.l

But to the question at hand. Keep buying smaller kites to extend the upper range. 1 strut or 3 strut low aspect will do.

I have 6m reo and 4m uno
I mainly use the Moses 550+325, which does not have much area. The overpower feel comes with the speed, on 25m lines and a 6m I feel perfect on the beach, i feel perfect when waterstarting, but as soon as i get some speed i am overpowered. Yes i can handle that power easily if i point hard upwind, but im searching for underpowered feel in this conditions.
My home build is loosely based on Moses 550,325 wings. I used to feel overpowered at similar powered levels. But then embraced the speed, Rather than trying to slow down I speed up to see if I could go even faster. After a while, I got used to the speed and could then more easily control it. Now I can run an 8m in the same winds used to run a 6m and I don't feel overpowered and I can do the same things on can do when underpowered on the 6m. Essentially my sweet spot range has increased dramatically by embracing speed.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8776
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:46 am

I dont know exactly "what you do" out there, which you can do with more power and speed just the same ???
Apparently not the same way of riding at least...
Some things are just a matter of getting used to more speed and power yes, agree, but the major part many freeriders/waveriders seek is not possible if powered too much.

Take a similar well known example: On a surfboard/waveboard you can NOT ride if too much power in the kite, your connecting turns and going vertical will just be impossible and rubbish - you will get the beginner style zig-zagging along the wave instead of freedom to pick your desired line, and might even be pulled off the board (and at least destroy your desired line).

The same goes for a hydrofoil IMO and experience, you will be limited if too much kite, you will be pulled off the board (just like if too powered on a surfboard) if you try to make the same tight turns and moves as you can with a sweetspot size - apart from being restricted hugely on waves, so not able to ride freely :roll:

Our "sweetspot" range increases with experience yep, and after af couple of years it is higher, but this does not necessarily mean it has been moved, just widened both upper end and lower end, as you still progress even after many years of hydrofoiling :D
But what happens is, that when you have ridden a lot, you will KNOW which moves you can do and not do the best, being powered at a specific level, thus you will make say flying tacks/jibes if well powered, you will ride waves when low powered or medium powered, and so on - we adapt our riding and moves to the very power we got out there, if the wind (like most common) changes up and down.

8) PF

plummet
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6045
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm
Kiting since: 33
Local Beach: EE
Favorite Beaches: NZ
Style: Terrain riding
Gear: Old wornout ozone.
Plummet hydrofoil and mutant
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby plummet » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:36 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:46 am
I dont know exactly "what you do" out there, which you can do with more power and speed just the same ???
Apparently not the same way of riding at least...
Some things are just a matter of getting used to more speed and power yes, agree, but the major part many freeriders/waveriders seek is not possible if powered too much.

Take a similar well known example: On a surfboard/waveboard you can NOT ride if too much power in the kite, your connecting turns and going vertical will just be impossible and rubbish - you will get the beginner style zig-zagging along the wave instead of freedom to pick your desired line, and might even be pulled off the board (and at least destroy your desired line).

The same goes for a hydrofoil IMO and experience, you will be limited if too much kite, you will be pulled off the board (just like if too powered on a surfboard) if you try to make the same tight turns and moves as you can with a sweetspot size - apart from being restricted hugely on waves, so not able to ride freely :roll:

Our "sweetspot" range increases with experience yep, and after af couple of years it is higher, but this does not necessarily mean it has been moved, just widened both upper end and lower end, as you still progress even after many years of hydrofoiling :D
But what happens is, that when you have ridden a lot, you will KNOW which moves you can do and not do the best, being powered at a specific level, thus you will make say flying tacks/jibes if well powered, you will ride waves when low powered or medium powered, and so on - we adapt our riding and moves to the very power we got out there, if the wind (like most common) changes up and down.

8) PF
I wonder if wind direction is a factor here. I'm predominantly cross on/cross shore. When I turn downwind to ride swell/carve,s turn or what ever I find no problem with a bigger kite apart from the fact that it turns slower. I can choose to ride it powered if i want or choose to ride it virtually slack line with no power at all doing acruisy twisty tight carving slow wave/swell session.

User avatar
Pedro Marcos
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2150
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Portugal - Algarve - Faro

Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby Pedro Marcos » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:03 am

plummet wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:07 am
Pedro Marcos wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:42 am
plummet wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:21 am
Why are you guys over powered on a 6m in 18 knots?

Are you using massive wings? Are your foils set up with too much aoa on the rear wing or do you simply have poor speed control?

I'm still on the 8m and loving it in 18 knots.l

But to the question at hand. Keep buying smaller kites to extend the upper range. 1 strut or 3 strut low aspect will do.

I have 6m reo and 4m uno
I mainly use the Moses 550+325, which does not have much area. The overpower feel comes with the speed, on 25m lines and a 6m I feel perfect on the beach, i feel perfect when waterstarting, but as soon as i get some speed i am overpowered. Yes i can handle that power easily if i point hard upwind, but im searching for underpowered feel in this conditions.
My home build is loosely based on Moses 550,325 wings. I used to feel overpowered at similar powered levels. But then embraced the speed, Rather than trying to slow down I speed up to see if I could go even faster. After a while, I got used to the speed and could then more easily control it. Now I can run an 8m in the same winds used to run a 6m and I don't feel overpowered and I can do the same things on can do when underpowered on the 6m. Essentially my sweet spot range has increased dramatically by embracing speed.
Ive tried that, and with that "embrace the speed" when powered up, i easily foil around at 45km/h+ all the time if im not carving upwing, for me thats too much speed for playing around, and way too much speed for playing around in very choopy conditions, also the foil becomes much more "input sensitive" at speed with requires another level of concentration that doesnt allow a relaxed riding.

junebug
Frequent Poster
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:14 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Gear: Twintip
Foil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby junebug » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:27 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:58 pm
It actually fits very well with math....

If you say ride a 12 m2 in 10 knots spot on, then a 6.2 m2 will have the same power when 18 knots, taking the apparent wind into consideration too.
Some ride a 10 m2 in 10 knots, so here a 5.2 m2 would have same power in 18 knots wind, and of course you can ride with a 4.5 eventhough you have to work it a bit yes.

In 20-21 knots your 4.5 would probably be spot on, according to vector calculations :thumb:

Not that I am using these to select kite sizes, but nice to see they fit spot on with the sizes one chooses :D

8) PF
Peter, will you share how you came up with these calculations?

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8776
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:08 pm

junebug wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:27 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:58 pm
It actually fits very well with math....

If you say ride a 12 m2 in 10 knots spot on, then a 6.2 m2 will have the same power when 18 knots, taking the apparent wind into consideration too.
Some ride a 10 m2 in 10 knots, so here a 5.2 m2 would have same power in 18 knots wind, and of course you can ride with a 4.5 eventhough you have to work it a bit yes.

In 20-21 knots your 4.5 would probably be spot on, according to vector calculations :thumb:

Not that I am using these to select kite sizes, but nice to see they fit spot on with the sizes one chooses :D

8) PF

Peter, will you share how you came up with these calculations?

Yes, I took all experience regarding sizes that "fit" me, taking into account that one uses bigger and sometimes more high aspect wings in lighter winds, as well as bigger boards, and eventually longer lines and foil kites (but these can be a factor 1.3 smaller approximately, for the same power.

Using vector calculations with realistic speeds so the pinching of the apparant wind "shut you down" quite fast when below 6 knots no matter which kite, and how bigger kites in this scenario lift more up so you get a deduction in needed lift etc etc - I ended up with this (shown before) which is around my personal sweet spot, not very powered, nor lightly powered either.
So I can always offset a bit "up" if I want to ride more powered on a given day and not in the relaxed sweetspot, or if more downwind current etc - but it still seems to fit quite well and the sizes I choose in different winds reflects the lines calculated in this graph.

Image

I have shown it before, and many will of course say it does not fit them at all - but try to offset a bit to fit your liking, and see how it would be quite okay in different average winds :rollgrin:
In marginal winds things change hugely, depending SO much on gear choice, so not very accurate of course - but one gets the picture of how size and wind is connected.

So to answer your question junebug: I simply said a 12 m2 in 10 knots, that is the red dotted line, and followed it to 18 knots, which gave me a 6.2 m2 kite as "same power" :naughty:

8) PF

slowboat
Medium Poster
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:55 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Style: Not much
Gear: This and that
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby slowboat » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:25 pm

Solid red line is REMARKABLY close to my current kite sizing.

cwood
Frequent Poster
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Cherry Beach, Toronto
Gear: Flysurfer
Moses Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby cwood » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:33 pm

Man we ride em big around here. I'm about +3 on the dashed red line @ 187 LB.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron