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Kite for 18+ knots

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jumptheshark
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Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:08 pm

Peter and Plummet come foiling from totally different riding styles.

Peter from surfboard, focused on riding the waves.

Plummet from a strapped muttant, riding and boosting in the waves.

I don't imagine their foiling styles are all that similar.

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Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby junebug » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:45 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:08 pm


Yes, I took all experience regarding sizes that "fit" me, taking into account that one uses bigger and sometimes more high aspect wings in lighter winds, as well as bigger boards, and eventually longer lines and foil kites (but these can be a factor 1.3 smaller approximately, for the same power.

Using vector calculations with realistic speeds so the pinching of the apparant wind "shut you down" quite fast when below 6 knots no matter which kite, and how bigger kites in this scenario lift more up so you get a deduction in needed lift etc etc - I ended up with this (shown before) which is around my personal sweet spot, not very powered, nor lightly powered either.
So I can always offset a bit "up" if I want to ride more powered on a given day and not in the relaxed sweetspot, or if more downwind current etc - but it still seems to fit quite well and the sizes I choose in different winds reflects the lines calculated in this graph.

Image

I have shown it before, and many will of course say it does not fit them at all - but try to offset a bit to fit your liking, and see how it would be quite okay in different average winds :rollgrin:
In marginal winds things change hugely, depending SO much on gear choice, so not very accurate of course - but one gets the picture of how size and wind is connected.

So to answer your question junebug: I simply said a 12 m2 in 10 knots, that is the red dotted line, and followed it to 18 knots, which gave me a 6.2 m2 kite as "same power" :naughty:

8) PF
That’s a handy chart. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby grigorib » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:20 pm

Pedro Marcos wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:16 pm
I still dont have a kite for high wind, and i rarely have more then 25 knots where i live but it becomes really choopy and wavy so very hard to go fast. I would something where i can be underpowered.

Too bad no one have a Hyperlink 5m here, i would like to test it, never liked foil kites in strong wind but would like to give it a go on that one.
90 kg. I foiled with my 8m Rally 2012 in 25 knots, gusting more. It's about a size of 7m "current" Rally, slightly, barely larger.
Above that wind, the water becomes quite messy and that's why I'm debating whether I need to buy a 5m again.

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Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby plummet » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:56 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:08 pm
Peter and Plummet come foiling from totally different riding styles.

Peter from surfboard, focused on riding the waves.

Plummet from a strapped muttant, riding and boosting in the waves.

I don't imagine their foiling styles are all that similar.
This is true. Through I can and do ride peters low power style I prefer to be powered up riding fast. The same is true on the foil.

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Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:02 pm

Aren't we moving away from the point now ?

Don't forget the topic of this thread, as posted by the O.P. and the thread title.

A good rider seeking advice on smaller kites, as his 6 m2 is too big from 18 knots :D

8) Peter

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Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby Pedro Marcos » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:05 pm

Nice chart, its seems acurate for LEI kites, should have some variations according to kite design (AR specially). It seems i need a 4meters LEI or something, i decided that i dont want to mess up with foil kites in high winds for now. So which kite i choose for my 4 or 5m ? :) Ive seen a good promo on a Mono 2016 5m, but never tested one, there is also the 3.5m option...

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Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:52 pm

Pedro Marcos wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:05 pm
Nice chart, its seems acurate for LEI kites, should have some variations according to kite design (AR specially). It seems i need a 4meters LEI or something, i decided that i dont want to mess up with foil kites in high winds for now. So which kite i choose for my 4 or 5m ? :) Ive seen a good promo on a Mono 2016 5m, but never tested one, there is also the 3.5m option...

I cant say really....

But my experience is, that medium sized kites like 6 or 7 or even an 8 m2 got a huuuge range both up and down, by far the biggest range.
An 8 can easily be ridden in 10 knots if needed, with the appropiate wing (but I prefer to be well powered so choosing something around a 10 m2)
A 6 m2 can just be ridden in 13-14 knots with a reasonble wing too, if needed, and got a really high upper end.

When you go smaller though, for some reason I find it way more critical that the kite is spot on, in order NOT to be overpowered in moves or carves and waves.
I can not say why, but it is like they get too on/off in these sizes, so more difficult if on the small size, compared to the huge windrange medium kitesizes got.
It could also be the sheer windspeed and acceleration of these smaller ones, that makes it hard if even a tad too big in maneuvers ?

Thus I find the jump from 3.5 to 5 m2 I got to be VERY big, and would love to have had a 4 m2 instead.

Maybe it is just me, but if others find the same, a 4 to go with your 6 would be quite a gap unfortunately, definitely not something I could live with.

I dont know which 6 m2 you got, but I know that the Mono in the bigger sizes got lots of pull, so if the same in 5, it is quite close to your 6 m2 :wink:

So something between 4.5 and 5 m2 same type as your 6 could be a good choice.

Or a different kite corresponding to a 4.5 to 5 m2 in power.

8) PF

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Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby Pedro Marcos » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:05 pm

My 6m is a Naish Ride, dont ask me why, price was 250€ for a new kite, so its VERY GOOD :)

I can start with this 6m in about 11 knots with my wave wing, very underpowered ofc, but then at 18 knots im already too powered for wave/freeride play... The range of foil kites its just soo much better for foiling, but those can get quite messy when dropped on waves or somehow tangled in strong winds.
Last edited by Pedro Marcos on Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby cwood » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:52 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:52 pm
Pedro Marcos wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:05 pm
Nice chart, its seems acurate for LEI kites, should have some variations according to kite design (AR specially). It seems i need a 4meters LEI or something, i decided that i dont want to mess up with foil kites in high winds for now. So which kite i choose for my 4 or 5m ? :) Ive seen a good promo on a Mono 2016 5m, but never tested one, there is also the 3.5m option...

I cant say really....

But my experience is, that medium sized kites like 6 or 7 or even an 8 m2 got a huuuge range both up and down, by far the biggest range.
An 8 can easily be ridden in 10 knots if needed, with the appropiate wing (but I prefer to be well powered so choosing something around a 10 m2)
A 6 m2 can just be ridden in 13-14 knots with a reasonble wing too, if needed, and got a really high upper end.

When you go smaller though, for some reason I find it way more critical that the kite is spot on, in order NOT to be overpowered in moves or carves and waves.
I can not say why, but it is like they get too on/off in these sizes, so more difficult if on the small size, compared to the huge windrange medium kitesizes got.
It could also be the sheer windspeed and acceleration of these smaller ones, that makes it hard if even a tad too big in maneuvers ?

Thus I find the jump from 3.5 to 5 m2 I got to be VERY big, and would love to have had a 4 m2 instead.

Maybe it is just me, but if others find the same, a 4 to go with your 6 would be quite a gap unfortunately, definitely not something I could live with.

I dont know which 6 m2 you got, but I know that the Mono in the bigger sizes got lots of pull, so if the same in 5, it is quite close to your 6 m2 :wink:

So something between 4.5 and 5 m2 same type as your 6 could be a good choice.

Or a different kite corresponding to a 4.5 to 5 m2 in power.

8) PF
absolutely! My 6m speed5 is very on or off....it will pull you out of your straps if you don't respect it. Very fast moving and depower is very sensitive as well. but a very large range of upper end. I have not had a day when I needed a smaller kite. The notion of a 4m is very foreign to me.

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Re: Kite for 18+ knots

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:52 am

My 6 m2 LEI (Takoon Furia 2017) is really pleasant and well behaved, not a "small kite" as such.

My 5 m2 is still okay, but a bit more sensitive.
Being a wavekite though, it is made to be well behaved.

Smaller than this, I have found, on the two I've tried, that it gets more "jiffy" somehow in terms of on/off, or it could like I wrote, be something with the pure wind speed you ride in, that makes it even worse if not spot on.

One thing that helped immensely, was to use normal 25-27 meter lines on the smallest kites (instead of shorter lines like we often do when surfboards) - this evened out the on/off feel :thumb:

Have no idea about small foilkites today - except for many years ago open cell 3 and 4 m2 foilkites, they had loads of power in extreme powerspikes like nothing you had ever tried, but this is not what many of us seek in hydrofoiling - only in marginal or lighter winds.

In 23 knots I can still ride my 5 m2, but it is not good, too much for the sweetspot and carving/waveriding even with smallest (wave) wing, and at 24 knots it is no good at all and I can forget using it in this wind - in fact I will be about to go out on a surfboard with the 5 in that much wind, at least on the verge changing from 6 down to 5 m2.

Things happens very fast in this end of the wind, also on surfboards, regarding sweetspot size.

But interestingly, on surfboards with these small kites, they dont feel odd the same way at all - I think it is because we ride them more powered so more bar pressure thus easier to control the short stroke, and of course also because the surfboards never accelerate too fast with the wind, like a hydrofoil in high winds and waves.

PS: Remember, this is average wind we are talking about - many seems to overestimate the actual wind. But as it fits pretty well on Pedro's experiences, I hope my input could have some value - eventhough I know many write they ride way bigger kites yes, and a very different situation then.

8) PF


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