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Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:42 pm

Interesting thoughts here...

But one thing where I dont agree - I dont find the shorter masts more agile at all, on the contrary...
WHEN up and flying that is :thumb:

As discussed in another thread, when you go down to say 70 or 80 cm it is not possible to ride as free and hard in carves, as with 90 or 100 cm masts.
Unless you will tolerate a slight touchdown of part of the board now and then - which is the crucial difference - I will never tolerate this, I will feel like a total failure if my board touches the water or wave ever so slightly even with just a small part :(

Some dont mind this, and might even have the board down ON the surface occasionally, when carving or riding waves, and then I can see the shorter masts might work really well indeed.

But if you dont want this (touching the water), the longer masts are by far more agile as you can lean harder and carve better with these :thumb:

To the original question - yes it might be very different when surface riding, but as you are on an adventure and going towards more and more flying, you just have to take the slightly different surface riding into account - and enjoy the higher agility and carving ability and more fun in chop and waves, and riding higher, the longer masts will give you :rollgrin:

The longer mast is not more difficult to balance either, when foiling.

8) PF

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Big Wally » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:44 am

Thank you Eddie. That is exactly what I’m feeling with the Long mast vs the short one is the weight difference. So I guess just slow things down including kite dive to give the longer/heavier mast a chance to catch up?

Thanks in advance.

BW

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:29 am

Big Wally wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:44 am
Thank you Eddie. That is exactly what I’m feeling with the Long mast vs the short one is the weight difference. So I guess just slow things down including kite dive to give the longer/heavier mast a chance to catch up?

Thanks in advance.

BW

No reason to slow your kitedive, just put a bit more weight on your rear foot and voila you are there even with power on the longest masts.

It is your "muscle memory" that has gotten used to riding a supershort mast, and this will feel more like without a mast :naughty:

8) PF

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Laughingman » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:12 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:42 pm
Interesting thoughts here...

But one thing where I dont agree - I dont find the shorter masts more agile at all, on the contrary...
WHEN up and flying that is :thumb:
8) PF
Well I think it would be fair to point out that surfers on hydrofoils prefer the shorter mast and if they are not agile I not sure who would be?

I understand what you are saying though, the tendency to lean back against the kite is hard to break and very difficult with a short mast especially if there is chop and that is definitely easier with a long mast but if you are riding more upright and trying to catch swells etc.. the short mast works great.

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:10 pm

I hardly never lean back (that is for racing only), I lean forward in tight turns like surfers in lay down bottom turns, and this is the "holy grail" for me and what it is all about very often.
But of course, when turning back on the wave (like a cutback) I lean back - and again - length is needed unless you are superman IMO.

But as said before, pretty sure now, the misconceptions to one or the other side comes between those who can accept a slight touch(down), and those who can not, thus VERY different likings appear :naughty:

Riding upright ?
Sounds just boring....

8) PF

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Foil » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:00 pm

[quote=Peter_Frank post

But as said before, pretty sure now, the misconceptions to one or the other side comes between those who can accept a slight touch(down), and those who can not, thus VERY different likings appear :naughty:
[/quote]


I wonder how long will it take me to get good enough to hardly never touch down, when I can claim that then I know I must be a good foiler, next year maybe? :-?
maybe, just maybe, I can dream :wink:

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby eddiemorgs » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:18 am

Foil wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:00 pm
[quote=Peter_Frank post

But as said before, pretty sure now, the misconceptions to one or the other side comes between those who can accept a slight touch(down), and those who can not, thus VERY different likings appear :naughty:


I wonder how long will it take me to get good enough to hardly never touch down, when I can claim that then I know I must be a good foiler, next year maybe? :-?
maybe, just maybe, I can dream :wink:
[/quote]

I think its a bit if an ask to measure your improvement against if you touchdown or not . Certainly you will do it less as you improve . I ride very short chop conditions a lot in Darwin , often needing to use more than the length of the foil , so I am not too fussed if I touchdown .
In fact sometimes I will do it on purpose in some situations .

I kinda believe learning could have more tricky on a short mast in our conditions .... but will stand corrected .
I rode a 600 mast the other day in fairly choppy conditions and found it really annoying , constantly adjusting .. suppose thats pretty obvious

You just need to spend time on the water and it comes together bit by bit .

I have been doing it for a year and can carve foil gybe heel and toe side , ride waves and now feel quite at ease with out having to concentrate too much .
Although sometimes it reminds to watch the water conditions :D

Just time on the water mate , that’s all and don’t overthink it

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby eddiemorgs » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:33 am

Big Wally wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:44 am
Thank you Eddie. That is exactly what I’m feeling with the Long mast vs the short one is the weight difference. So I guess just slow things down including kite dive to give the longer/heavier mast a chance to catch up?

Thanks in advance.

BW
No worries Big Wally .

It’s not so much that you wait for it to catch up ... by starting in a slightly more back weighted position the whole kit will keep up with you better is what it is about

Eg I went from my carbon gear 6.5kgs to an old liquid force foil - must have 2 x the weight and kept going over the front on the launch , couldn’t believe how much I had to lean back to make it work .
If I has used the same position on my jshapes it’s would have chucked me off like some of the young horses I have trained back in the day :o
It was a pig of a thing but this experience is a demonstration of what i am talking about in relation to what you are experiencing.

And , it will be the same for everyone with every change they make to their gear . New settings again .

Yeah, and same kite dive , dont change that. Just your body position , but when up and foiling you may have to adopt a more forward stance according to what the foil requires

Cheers

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:14 am

Foil wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:00 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:10 pm

But as said before, pretty sure now, the misconceptions to one or the other side comes between those who can accept a slight touch(down), and those who can not, thus VERY different likings appear :naughty:

I wonder how long will it take me to get good enough to hardly never touch down, when I can claim that then I know I must be a good foiler, next year maybe? :-?
maybe, just maybe, I can dream :wink:

Foil, I dont say I dont touch down much - I do it extremely often, at my level, in missed transitions.
Especially because when you have learned something okay, you typically start trying to learn something new you can not do, right ?

But when carving or riding around making turns on or up and down the wave, I usually never touch the water or wave with any part of the board.

This will come in time the more you ride, is not really about skill (talent) like transitions or tricks are, but more TIME and time on the water, and it comes automatically :thumb:

My point is still, that some dont mind the occasional touch with the board, and they might use a shorter mast, others dont like this and want to turn harder without touching, so using a longer mast.
Two different individual "preferences" that somewhat can reflect the choice of mast length.

8) PF

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Foil » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:09 pm

Thanks peter,
phew, I did think you were saying you never touch down which would be some distant target for me to think about, now you have explained it I understand.


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