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Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

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3InletsWindsports
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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby 3InletsWindsports » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:12 am

So is this about not getting going long enough to get up on foil with long mast?
Or can you happily foil on long mast but have trouble when board is on water.

gbrungra
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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby gbrungra » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:18 am

I'm currently riding 24" mast on hoverglide flight school. I've experienced the jump from 17" mast to 24" mast, and surface riding definitely does feel different. Each step longer makes the board behave less like a surfboard when on the water. Each step lowers the roll center of the board/foil combo.

Picture yourself riding a bicycle. If you make the bicycle taller, the feel of turns will change. You will feel the tires behind farther from right underneath you during a turn. Turn initiation will feel slower.

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Foil » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:14 am

maybe try moving your longer mast forward in its track a little to lift the board a little more to reduce drag before take off,
this changing mast lengths experience is a major step when you are learning, we have all been through it and it takes time on the water to adapt and get to feel at ease with each jump up in size.
The biggest jump from 40cm to 70 or 90cm is a real shock, but soon becomes normal to your muscle memory, for some this takes a lot of water time with favourable conditions, for others a few hours less and other just tell fibs and declare its easy peasey, its not, it takes practice.
I often jump from my 71cm mast to my 101cm(yesterday and the day before) and am amazed how quickly the short mast helps me pop up on to the fly and how agile the board feels when flying or surface riding, for example I love looping the kite to get going when using the short mast as this works so much better than when using the long mast, the short mast allows the board to shoot off slightly down wind and pop up and then cut back upwind very very quickly, not so easily as on the long mast which can drag a little, and slow things down a little in the first few seconds of take off.both very different, both use different muscle memory.

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby TomW » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:41 am

OP says:

"It seems when I try the Long mast that when I dive the Kite the drag/resistance seems much different than w the short mast. Obviously it’s more surface area and more rigid?? I don’t seem to be able to go very far before I fall and it seems like my Speed w Board flat on water is way slower than w the Short mast"

I interpret this to mean he's have trouble with surface riding.

Takes some time to learn how the whole thing behaves in the water. It's worth time learning to surface ride well. It will allow you to ride on surface in light or rough conditions, give you time to find your balance before take off, make your touchdowns safer and your surface turns better.
I spent a few hours surface foiling on my 4th session ( hours 4-6 ) in 93cm mast and it was time well spent. My instructor insisted I did not try to fly that session. Next day I was flying and landing fairly well.

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Big Wally » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:51 pm

3 Inlets, it’s about: So is this about not getting going long enough to get up on foil with long mast?

I like the Bicycle example. I’m just asking to see it there is something different I need to do like point more DOWNWIND on kite dive to start or bend knees and stay lower etc.

BW

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Laughingman » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:20 pm

TomW wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:41 am
OP says:

"It seems when I try the Long mast that when I dive the Kite the drag/resistance seems much different than w the short mast. Obviously it’s more surface area and more rigid?? I don’t seem to be able to go very far before I fall and it seems like my Speed w Board flat on water is way slower than w the Short mast"

I interpret this to mean he's have trouble with surface riding.

Takes some time to learn how the whole thing behaves in the water. It's worth time learning to surface ride well. It will allow you to ride on surface in light or rough conditions, give you time to find your balance before take off, make your touchdowns safer and your surface turns better.
I spent a few hours surface foiling on my 4th session ( hours 4-6 ) in 93cm mast and it was time well spent. My instructor insisted I did not try to fly that session. Next day I was flying and landing fairly well.
I experienced the same thing when I made the switch from short to long mast,TomW is right surface riding at least one session will fix the problem enough you can move on. Hard to accept once out there though because you know you can foil right... :rollgrin:

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Big Wally » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Thanks Laughing. Any wisdom on how to point Board etc when diving kite and how to stand while riding? I seem to get pulled off Board when riding surface downwind. Does that make sense ? Meaning I Fall downwind.

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Laughingman » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:02 pm

So what i think is happening is you have created muscle memory of how the board and the foil move together. side to side front to back etc. Without the extra length of the long mast the board reacts more quickly to the environment and your input. Think of a weight on a string (pendulum). let it swing and see the rhythm, then double the length of the string... see how much slower it swings. Your feet are trained to expect the short string rhythm, but the input from the board is from the long string. You have to retrain your muscle memory. I was like a bambi on ice the first 3 or so hours, you are just going to have to keep at it and ride the board on the water as long as it takes to retrain yourself. You already have the technique you just need to adapt it to the new reality.

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Sandras » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:37 pm

Laughingman wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:02 pm
So what i think is happening is you have created muscle memory of how the board and the foil move together. side to side front to back etc. Without the extra length of the long mast the board reacts more quickly to the environment and your input. Think of a weight on a string (pendulum). let it swing and see the rhythm, then double the length of the string... see how much slower it swings. Your feet are trained to expect the short string rhythm, but the input from the board is from the long string. You have to retrain your muscle memory. I was like a bambi on ice the first 3 or so hours, you are just going to have to keep at it and ride the board on the water as long as it takes to retrain yourself. You already have the technique you just need to adapt it to the new reality.
I thought that short masts were only waste of money..
... Not time as well...
:jump:

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Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Laughingman » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:55 pm

Sandras wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:37 pm

I thought that short masts were only waste of money..
... Not time as well...
:jump:
Well that depends on what you want to do. Where I learned to foil the short mast was sufficient to clear the waves and preferred because of the sandbars. When I switched to the long mast the conditions were such that I needed a longer shaft to clear the waves and the water was plenty deep.
So saying it is a waste of money and/or time is quite short sighted and very surprising coming from someone who is so knowledgeable regarding all things foil.


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