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Surf Foils for Kiteboarding?

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tomtom
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Re: Surf Foils for Kiteboarding?

Postby tomtom » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:25 am

Peter do you still think that you get benefit from bigger board with this wing? I found big board not only not beneficial but detrimental on Onda. Also do you think that in stronger wind its easier to foil on smaller wing?. I feel like i need ridiculous small kites on Onda and after WS 6m2 sails wind im rather on surfboard. My smallest kite is 7m2 althought... Maybe i should also buy different wings to make things more comfortable in medium and later maybe also stronger winds...
Many thanks

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Re: Surf Foils for Kiteboarding?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:01 pm

tomtom wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:25 am
Peter do you still think that you get benefit from bigger board with this wing? I found big board not only not beneficial but detrimental on Onda. Also do you think that in stronger wind its easier to foil on smaller wing?. I feel like i need ridiculous small kites on Onda and after WS 6m2 sails wind im rather on surfboard. My smallest kite is 7m2 althought... Maybe i should also buy different wings to make things more comfortable in medium and later maybe also stronger winds...
Many thanks

Definitely bigger board still a lot better regarding low end.

I had to stop my session with the 12 m2 because the wind faded to just around/under 6 knots, and on my medium 130 board I could just get up on the board yes, but it would sink so much when the kite was on the top of a loop or on the upstrokes of dives, that no way I could ride eventhough I tried many times.

If I had taken the bigger board it would be a lot easier to get foiling - also WAY easier to get out as I dont have to swim/drag/loop as far out, because it wont hit the bottom when on a bigger board even when not foiling, but would be able to get out and work to get up foiling.

There is absolutely no match between a big and small board, so much difference when in lower winds even with huge wing, and to me, no downsides.
Felt exactly the same superior effect of board size, as on smaller wings.

If you had a heavy big board it would be different of course, and you will get swingweight and it will feel clumsy and sticky to the water - not so if you got a superlight one.

I do change to smaller boards in more wind though, several sizes down eventually - as it feels more in harmony and right with the increasing windspeed, you dont catch the edges when water now becomes big choppy or bigger waves, easier to board drag out through waves.

Have only been out one day, yesterday, a handful of sessions with 9 and 12 m2 kites and different boards, but it was evident that board size had the very same positive effect in this wind 5-8 knots, in fact the same difference as on smaller wings :thumb:

In a lot more wind board size doesnt matter, in a bit more wind it still does IMO.
Unless you are so good that you can ride without hardly ever touching down - I can not, many touchdowns or crashes especially when trying something new I can not do yet :roll:

I have no idea how it will work compared to smaller wavewings in higher winds, will take some months of riding to know as you have to be out in many different wave conditions, and also change wings on the given days, to know anything...

When the wind is beetween dead onshore and 45 degree, I dont like to ride surfboards anyways, and prefer to foil with small kites and wavewings, sometimes choosing my smallest wing.
But most often the WaveXL (790) actually, so will be interesting to see if the 1200 will by far take over or not, or have its own conditions where it will be preferred - I have no idea yet, but it will definitely be used in waves in some conditions, that is for sure even based on one days riding only.

Not nearly as nimble and lively as a wavewing half its size, but because it (can) ride slower, it can turn really tight anyways, and hang onto the wave.

It was a bit more about my first impressions at least :wink:

8) Peter

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Re: Surf Foils for Kiteboarding?

Postby tomtom » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:16 pm

Many thanks for opinion,
If you have more experience with 1200 please let me know if you think its somehow detrimental in stronger wind.
Im dealing right now if i should go down to very little kites path or normal small kites and smaller wing.

Thinking about that - maybe there is reason why BRM makes 2.2 and 2.8...

I want foiling in every wind not just light to medium

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Re: Surf Foils for Kiteboarding?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:49 pm

Out for the second day (evening) with the Ketos Surf wing KF660-1200.

Wind was around 15 knots, and I had my smaller board, but a new 5 m2 LEI kite I wanted to try, so went out with normal lines (27 m for me) and it was spot on powerwise actually.

Surprised how well it turned, and after putting a really small stabilizer on it was even better :thumb:

Did not feel big when turning or on a wave.

Maybe you guys Kami and others are right, you dont need anything else but this one ha haa :naughty:

Tried my medium wing too, it required a lot of work to get foiling, compared - but in this wind I would usually also rig something like 6 or 6½ m2 so that makes sense.

The next months will tell if all our small wings will become obsolete now (for me at least), or if they all have a place for different conditions :rollgrin:

It somewhat feels like we are going back to the "Start" 10 years ago - nothing wrong with that though (http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2399921)

8) Peter

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Re: Surf Foils for Kiteboarding?

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:11 am

To-oooldja :D

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Re: Surf Foils for Kiteboarding?

Postby Dwight » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:21 am

Peter,

Do you have a shorter mast to go with those surf wings? I know some pro guys who won’t ride tall masts with surf foils. Surf foils react quicker on shorter.

I use a 68cm mast on mine. It can be tricky when the wave size is bigger though 😃

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Re: Surf Foils for Kiteboarding?

Postby tomtom » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:45 am

Before Peter answer JUST IMO :)

I was strong believer in shorter mast with surfing wing. Now im not. The reason is - I just surf and carve most of the time /no problem with this on 70cm/ - but this put you deep downwind. Now I want crank back upwind as fast as possible. With 63 cm wing span /onda/ it isnt possible on shorter mast without ventilation. 90cm i think is best compromise.
Gunnar told me this when I start but i didnt understand and believe then completely.

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Re: Surf Foils for Kiteboarding?

Postby Foil » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:46 am

tomtom wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:45 am
Before Peter answer JUST IMO :)

I was strong believer in shorter mast with surfing wing. Now im not. The reason is - I just surf and carve most of the time /no problem with this on 70cm/ - but this put you deep downwind. Now I want crank back upwind as fast as possible. With 63 cm wing span /onda/ it isnt possible on shorter mast without ventilation. 90cm i think is best compromise.
Gunnar told me this when I start but i didnt understand and believe then completely.
Exactly my findings, except I changed to the 101 mast and have now stopped using my 91cm mast, and as for the 60 and the 70 cm masts, I moved them on a month ago for the very same reason as tomtom(far to easy to ventilate the cranked over 633 wing)
and my collection of smaller moses wings were all moved on as well.
The 633 Onda and the 637 race wing are all I need.

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Re: Surf Foils for Kiteboarding?

Postby stevez » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:16 pm

Short masts work best with bigger wings in smaller waves and lighter wind.
With bigger waves and stronger wind, bigger wings still work, but you really need to go to a longer mast.
You can get by on the shorter mast, but you will be more comfortable and have more fun on a longer one for sure.

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Re: Surf Foils for Kiteboarding?

Postby jespin4845 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:36 pm

It’s all relative, I will easily take out a gofoil kai in head high waves on a 70cm mast with the adapter plate and find that mast size perfect

Gotta go downwind sometimes to cross the wave at an angle foiling up the face of the unbroken wave to get past the break, can’t just charge it head on

Short mast allows you to really ride the wave close to the shore which is the best part of the wave... :D

Riding a 110cm mast with a surf foil to me is the equivalent of riding it with straps for me, regardless of how big or strong the wind is, rig a smaller kite and carve harder with a 70cm on the face of the wave, don’t just ride the thing in a straight line down the face like your on a stilt


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