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is super light wind the promised land?!

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Regis-de-giens
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Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:36 am

thank you gentlemen ; As you can see I do not loop systematically when I have to do more than 2 loops, depending on how is the kite and the sinking depth of my board when the kite is reaching the zenith ; the main aim here is to stay on the board when it is sinking, and step by step , pump after pump, you can increase slowly the line tension (hence kite speed) up to get enough to foil-up ; sometimes the start of a second or third loop can kill the tension at the zenith and then the board sinks too much; it may be useful to start pumping even with the as in the water which shakes the kite and gives a bit more tension;

Peter: good remark; I use gloves in light winds for following reasons :
- I often ride with one hand in the middle of the bar and do not like fleeing the gliding of the depower rope in-between my fingers
- in case I have to manage the briddles
- prehension of the bar remains very good if not better with some gloves models
- they are not hot at all

it is not standard kite gloves but rather very light gloves (that you can find for a pair of Euros in DIY shops):
Image

Complete suit: You are right water is hot , around 27 degree , and a lot of people look at me strangely :lol: ; it is for protection reasons as I do not like the little hurts that the foil can make on your legs ; also because in case of swimming, I get very rapidly cold (including off-shore light-rides) : I have a lack of grease encapsulation layer with my 60 kg ... :oops: ; but it it quite large (And tgin : 2mm) so I am never too hot inside ; it even keeps be colder in the sun on the beach , when wet; I do not think the impact on low-end is significant , but next "onshore-summer-marginal wind" configuration , I will try without to test this.
Last edited by Regis-de-giens on Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Pedro Marcos » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:43 am

Ah you are 60kg ! Thats also explains you getting on the board so easily on that wind :)

Regis-de-giens
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Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:06 pm

yes you are right, this is a major point ... and also the big power and light weight of this kite model (15m2)

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Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby tomtom » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:12 pm

About Wetsuit. I actually found lot of thin wet suits much colder than naked /board shorts. Lycra obviously is cooling. About 2mm neoprene if neoprene is with textile layer /which all new are/ it is maybe neutral - so not warn not cooler than naked. Everything thinner is cooling. Im also very skinny and mostly on cold side. So thinner wetsuit is not option for me. Im either in thicker suit or naked. Foiling in board short is in some sense stronger experience - you can feel it :)

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Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:15 pm

Tuning and relaunch tips?? Gloves, and what next, fins?? I'm sorry, but this is not the promised land.


10 Knots may sound ridiculously high to those that are please with simply riding along, but to many a kiteboarders it is impossibly low for the kind of riding it allows.

The dark arts of the lowest of the low, where the kite is dictating what you can and cant do is not what I would ever refer to as the promised land, you have fallen out the bottom and are into some other place. It's viable and your welcome to it, but lets not sell it as anything other than what it is. Technical, skill intensive, generally expensive, and full of swimming until you become a foil tuning/relaunching jedi.

10 Knots is the on switch to a completely different experience. In 10 you can drift the kite, power the kite, loop the kite and forget the kite for a while. You can go wherever you want, and have a great time getting there and back. In the winds you guys are talking, you have to constrain what you do with the foil under your feet full time in order to satisfy the requirements of the foil above your head. What kind of promise is that? Sounds more like a trade. Marginal wind is willingly being a slave to the kite.

The "Promise" is freedom of movement and concentration. The ability to jump, carve, change direction at will and then get back upwind to do whatever you want all over again without it taking any effort at all. 10 Knots is where pretty much any reasonably skiller foiler can ride nicely powered on a variety of gear with the forgiveness to work on the full bevy of foiling skills ahead of them with plenty of wiggle room to recover and ride on. You can slack line a hundred times in 10 knokts and never come off the foil. Now THAT is the promised land.

Ride way out in a straight line only to mess it up turning around and set your 18m in the drink and swim in....... No thanks.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Pedro Marcos » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:20 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:15 pm
Tuning and relaunch tips?? Gloves, and what next, fins?? I'm sorry, but this is not the promised land.


10 Knots may sound ridiculously high to those that are please with simply riding along, but to many a kiteboarders it is impossibly low for the kind of riding it allows.

The dark arts of the lowest of the low, where the kite is dictating what you can and cant do is not what I would ever refer to as the promised land, you have fallen out the bottom and are into some other place. It's viable and your welcome to it, but lets not sell it as anything other than what it is. Technical, skill intensive, generally expensive, and full of swimming until you become a foil tuning/relaunching jedi.

10 Knots is the on switch to a completely different experience. In 10 you can drift the kite, power the kite, loop the kite and forget the kite for a while. You can go wherever you want, and have a great time getting there and back. In the winds you guys are talking, you have to constrain what you do with the foil under your feet full time in order to satisfy the requirements of the foil above your head. What kind of promise is that? Sounds more like a trade. Marginal wind is willingly being a slave to the kite.

The "Promise" is freedom of movement and concentration. The ability to jump, carve, change direction at will and then get back upwind to do whatever you want all over again without it taking any effort at all. 10 Knots is where pretty much any reasonably skiller foiler can ride nicely powered on a variety of gear with the forgiveness to work on the full bevy of foiling skills ahead of them with plenty of wiggle room to recover and ride on. You can slack line a hundred times in 10 knokts and never come off the foil. Now THAT is the promised land.

Ride way out in a straight line only to mess it up turning around and set your 18m in the drink and swim in....... No thanks.
So you can stay under the umbrella and watch :) even laugh when we swim. Many prefer this i know :)

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Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby davesails7 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:36 pm

I think you should be able to tell how low the wind is from the apparent wind angles if you know your board speed upwind (https://www.hydesailsdirect.com/Articles.asp?ID=278). If you are staying upwind at all, I think the wind has to be at least 5 knots, regardless of what kite and foil you are on. Otherwise, the apparent wind angles just don't make sense.

How slow (board speed) do you think you can go upwind? 10 knots?

What angle to the apparent wind do you think you can sail in low wind conditions? 25 degrees?

Even at 5 knots, you'd have to sail 26-27 degrees to the apparent wind to hold your ground (90 deg to true wind). At 4 knots you're at 22 deg. Those are just to hold your ground. If you're going upwind, I think it's got to be more wind.

When I hit the absolute low end limit on my sonic 2 18m, I'm riding upwind all the time, but barely holding my ground. I'm on a race hydrofoil, so I'm typically going 15 knots upwind minimum. At that speed, 90 degree heading to true wind, 7 knots of wind, my apparent wind angle is about 25 degrees. I'm riding hard upwind all the time, but wind up back at the same point after every tack.

I will say though that the upwind angles on my new Sonic VMG 15m have been significantly better than the Sonic 2, so maybe the new kites make lower winds possible.

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Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby TomW » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:57 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:15 pm
Tuning and relaunch tips?? Gloves, and what next, fins?? I'm sorry, but this is not the promised land.


10 Knots may sound ridiculously high to those that are please with simply riding along, but to many a kiteboarders it is impossibly low for the kind of riding it allows.

The dark arts of the lowest of the low, where the kite is dictating what you can and cant do is not what I would ever refer to as the promised land, you have fallen out the bottom and are into some other place. It's viable and your welcome to it, but lets not sell it as anything other than what it is. Technical, skill intensive, generally expensive, and full of swimming until you become a foil tuning/relaunching jedi.

10 Knots is the on switch to a completely different experience. In 10 you can drift the kite, power the kite, loop the kite and forget the kite for a while. You can go wherever you want, and have a great time getting there and back. In the winds you guys are talking, you have to constrain what you do with the foil under your feet full time in order to satisfy the requirements of the foil above your head. What kind of promise is that? Sounds more like a trade. Marginal wind is willingly being a slave to the kite.

The "Promise" is freedom of movement and concentration. The ability to jump, carve, change direction at will and then get back upwind to do whatever you want all over again without it taking any effort at all. 10 Knots is where pretty much any reasonably skiller foiler can ride nicely powered on a variety of gear with the forgiveness to work on the full bevy of foiling skills ahead of them with plenty of wiggle room to recover and ride on. You can slack line a hundred times in 10 knokts and never come off the foil. Now THAT is the promised land.

Ride way out in a straight line only to mess it up turning around and set your 18m in the drink and swim in....... No thanks.
agree- 10 knots is magic- sometimes go out in 8 knots on my Sonic 2 13m and have loads of fun.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:14 pm

Having fun or not in less than 8-10 knots is a matter of personal taste, not sure that one statement is superior to the other (as it depends on what you like with kitesurfing), but i am sure you will never convince someone loving riding on calm sea that he should not like that :nono: . Personally : initially , I began to try to lower my ultimate lowend only to increase my riding frequency, which is a good objective in itself (22m2 foil kite with door TT). Then i discovered this pleasure like a drug with the Hydrofoil ; now i like 7 knots as much as 10... but anyway , no need to argue :argue:

I find the remark of davesail7 very interesting. I do not agree with the conclusion (I think that angle to apparent wind can be better than 25 degrees) but it is worth dedicating a topic I think, very interesting. This "damned " apparent wind is to me the reason why large medium ratio kites combinated to large HF wing is a winner combo for extreme light : because on top of better stability (necessary as we see on the video) , you can ride at lower "boat speed " if necessary, hence stay upwind easily without requiring a high speed that kills the upwind angle in extreme light.

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jumptheshark
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Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby jumptheshark » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:18 am

Regis,

Did you go to Kingston during Fork this summer?


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