Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

is super light wind the promised land?!

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders


User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8813
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:02 am

Hmmm, I must say I am impressed, but have never seen it done not by the best riders not even at the worlds a couple of weeks ago, a relaunch in 4 knots in deep water :roll:

Flying/launching a kite on land is possible often pretty easy in 1-2 knots, agree on that.

Are we talking about the same or the old "impossible to compare in numbers"?

4 knots of wind without gusts (in 10 m height which is the std measuring) that is VERY low at head height, might be say 2 max 3 knots, and even less at the surface.

So for a kite being wet all over one side/surface 15-21 m2 I still have to see that happen myself.

Would love if it was so indeed, but very doubtful I have to say.

Or are the UL racekites so much worse at this than other UL kites?

8) PF

Kitehume
Rare Poster
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:33 pm
Kiting since: 2012
Local Beach: Lake Hume, Australia.
Gear: Ocean rodeo prodigy 9.5m
Ocean rodeo flite 10m
Ocean rodeo prodigy 12m
FlySurfer Soul 12m
Ocean rodeo flite 14.5m
Shinn king gee 146x46
Shinn monk gold 135x42
Liquid force thruster foil
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Australia

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Kitehume » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:00 am

jakemoore wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:26 am
Kitehume wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:13 am
So hoping a 12m Soul will fix my low wind relaunch headaches.
Looks like you have the Soloshot3 sorted out. Are you using the 25 or 65? Any vibration problems?
Using the optic 25. The latest firmware is working well. More reliable tracking.
Wind shake is still a issue. So I always have it shelted from the wind.

User avatar
Pedro Marcos
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2150
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Portugal - Algarve - Faro

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Pedro Marcos » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:00 pm

Ive got about 10 sessions now on my 21m R1V2 and its just amazing being fully powered at 6 knots! Can go in 3-4 knots if the wind is stable but high risks of swimming if it dropps under 3.

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby foilholio » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:14 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:02 am
Hmmm, I must say I am impressed, but have never seen it done not by the best riders not even at the worlds a couple of weeks ago, a relaunch in 4 knots in deep water :roll:

Flying/launching a kite on land is possible often pretty easy in 1-2 knots, agree on that.

Are we talking about the same or the old "impossible to compare in numbers"?

4 knots of wind without gusts (in 10 m height which is the std measuring) that is VERY low at head height, might be say 2 max 3 knots, and even less at the surface.

So for a kite being wet all over one side/surface 15-21 m2 I still have to see that happen myself.

Would love if it was so indeed, but very doubtful I have to say.

Or are the UL racekites so much worse at this than other UL kites?

8) PF
Well it may be impossible to compare numbers. Lets compare facts, but first some perspective on numbers. I would say most standard foils park down to 5knots. Below that they must be constantly flown just to stay in the air. For Ultralight this parked limit is 4knots. There is some variance to these numbers between models and brands. At 5 knots on open ocean there are no white caps and the water is slightly rippled with a quite glass appearance. At 5knots at water level there is no wind at all apparent. At 4 knots the ocean is starting to flatten more, and at 3 knots you are getting large patches that are completely flat.

Now ignore what you and I think the wind speed is. Can you relaunch your kite in the lightest wind that it will still park? If not you still have to learn your technique and maybe change your gear a bit.

As to the best racers, yes they are skilled but they do not know everything about foil kites. My experience and particularly my riding with surfing and Completely slack lines surfing has led to experience particularly with foil kites but maybe even kites in general , that I am not even sure anyone else has. If you have relaunched foil kites 5000 to maybe even 15000 times by all means shout out. At some point things have just become instinct for me.

Yes racekites are harder. Water repellent skins like lotus make a massive difference. Also forgot to mention the biggest kites relaunch and fly in the least wind. Don't expect a 12m to match a 18 or 21m.

Honestly you can roll your eyes and have doubts but I don't go to these lengths explaining things just to BS.
Pedro Marcos wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:00 pm
Ive got about 10 sessions now on my 21m R1V2 and its just amazing being fully powered at 6 knots! Can go in 3-4 knots if the wind is stable but high risks of swimming if it dropps under 3.
When you are at the limit of the kite best try keep it deep, or go hard on the rear lines so it falls on it's TE for easy relaunch. The challenge of pushing lower is fun in itself.

tomtom
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 647
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby tomtom » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:32 pm

No standart cloths just dont park at 5 - period. There not even such a thing as stable 5 knots... If there is no wind at water then you are screw. Also kite did not fall to starting position ready to be relauched they even dont fall LE down opened and ready to reverse. They usualy fall at the edge and then they are flat on water ear on ear.
You can pull kite to start in almost no wind if it is LE UP and ready - but to get kite in this position there must be some wind.
What you are experience is gust that help you with f.e. turning kite. etc. This will be infinite debate and at the end nobody know what is 5...

User avatar
jumptheshark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:11 pm

OMG this is some kooky shit. Without questioning the truth of your claims, they are still ridiculous.

Most people reading here are not investing 15000 relaunches to learn the intricacy of foil kite nirvana. Even pro racers are not as adept as you claim to be. Good on you, but please see that you are not the norm and your advice is grossly misleading to the majority of readers.

The simple fact is that if you chase the low end with foil kites, your gonna do a lot of swimming.

If you chase the low end with inflatable kites, its not going to be as low, and your still going to do a lot of swimming.

A lot of swimming can however be avoided with just a wee bit of judgement. I know my biggest kite can relaunch and fly in less wind than I can waterstart. Doesn't matter how messed up or how long in the water, if there is enough wind that I can get up, it will relaunch and I will ride in. For me, that is around 8 knots because I just don't want to go any bigger. That doesn't mean I go out in 8 knots. Like I said. I draw the line at 10. Others may differ, and they will swim more because of it. As to foil kites. It's not uncommon for them to get into situations where they will not relaunch for mere mortals despite adequate wind. This needs consideration by those who plan to go out in "super light wind". You may be immune but even if your claims are true, you are the exception, and most definitely not the rule.

User avatar
Pedro Marcos
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2150
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Portugal - Algarve - Faro

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Pedro Marcos » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:49 pm

tomtom wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:32 pm
No standart cloths just dont park at 5 - period. There not even such a thing as stable 5 knots... If there is no wind at water then you are screw. Also kite did not fall to starting position ready to be relauched they even dont fall LE down opened and ready to reverse. They usualy fall at the edge and then they are flat on water ear on ear.
You can pull kite to start in almost no wind if it is LE UP and ready - but to get kite in this position there must be some wind.
What you are experience is gust that help you with f.e. turning kite. etc. This will be infinite debate and at the end nobody know what is 5...
It depends where you live.

I live near the sea and in the summer we get thermal seabreeze all day, this seabreeze is very steady wind that can be 4-5 knots all day or 7-8, depending on the day. Variations are very little and this allows the kite to have a very predictable behaviour, so its easier to go in less wind, and also easier to save it when you mess it up. Im talking about wind that requires stalling the kite to be able to waterstart and that missing a jibe or tack means your kite will touch the water almost 90% sure, so you need to be ready to save it in the right time. Talking about 18m to 21m kites, anything less wont waterstart unless the rider is very light.

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby foilholio » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:56 pm

10knots is ridiculously high, I can still get good drift in that wind when with the same use most tube kites just fall straight from the air.

I would say at most if knowing what is possible and how then 100 relaunches would have you proficient. No one taught most of the stuff I know. Which is much harder than with some instruction, read, watched or otherwise. I also did not take till now to get very good at relaunch, that took maybe 1000 relaunches. Tangling kites teaches you number one not to drop kites, number two drop them well if you must so they don't tangle.

There is a number of barriers to the absolute relaunch limit, being gear, setup and skills. The gear is not common, nor setups. Given what is often used though with more skill better can be done.
tomtom wrote:No standart cloths just dont park at 5 - period.
Well we can disagree, but my point is at the speed it parks you should be able to relaunch.
tomtom wrote:There not even such a thing as stable 5 knots...
It is my experience that light wind is usually more stable. That also wind is always changing, and timing things with gusts is even easier. That said extra efforts become a must below parking speeds if not at or near it.
tomtom wrote: Also kite did not fall to starting position ready to be relauched they even dont fall LE down opened and ready to reverse.
If you know the signs like serious drop in power that you are kiting on inertia and you act quick you can plant kite on it's TE. If I come off plane in light wind I am usually actively flying the kite. The window diminishes to force it down wind. If it stalls out of turns I may direct it to sit TE on the water. That said you can still fly a kite when it starts stalling in turns.

Backstall on the bar will help you get this.
tomtom wrote: This will be infinite debate and at the end nobody know what is 5...
Use the Parking speed then not a number. Riding below parking speed is exceedingly difficult most people won't or can't do it. Relaunching below parking speed is often not possible.

tomtom
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 647
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby tomtom » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:02 pm

Yes, but we are talking about deepwater relauch in this condition not waterstart. And thats i have yet to see.

tomtom
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 647
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby tomtom » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:31 am

Previous comment was for Pedro.

I agree with parkspeed - its my experience also. If it park then i can ride and relaunch.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: NYKiter and 5 guests