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some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

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juandesooka
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby juandesooka » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:41 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:49 pm
As I have mentioned in the other Wave Foiling thread, I have tried the Clouds, and they also don't do it for me. That said, I have not had time to get used to them, as they were not mine. So far I have been having the best progress with a 6m ReoV5 with a modded bridle and the Hyperlink 7m UL. I can sort of "brake" these kites to stay in front of me. This works ok, but this is not quite what I want. If the conditions warrant it, I do unhook, however the Hyperlink drifts better when totally depowered, so that does not work optimally.
The trick flying that BRM Greg does in his Cloudfoiling videos lately is absurd, IMHO, but it highlights the kind of next level capabilities that you're talking about. Those kites do things that "normal" kites don't -- some of which may be beneficial to what you're after. Dunno, something to consider perhaps.

I've never attempted unhooked kiting personally. I can appreciate why someone would though, as kiting for me was originally supposed to be all about surfing more waves without having to paddle. It would indeed be the ultimate to surf them like you weren't attached to a kite.

Or alternatively, don't even try to emulate surfing, but focus on the kite power aspects as an entirely different animal: like Plummet described in the other thread, just "surf" the unbroken swells and leave the breaking section to the short boarders. :D That's the complication in this thread, "proper" wave foiling means a lot of different things to different people. I am down with all of them ... just wanna have the most fun.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:46 pm

To Ozbongy, as others have said, you are VERY wrong - you can easily be powered by the wave alone, in fact this does not require a big wing at all if you go along the wave.
This is the very point that is interesting, that we can harvest even a flat choppy small wave a lot better than on other boards.
With a wave or surfboard you will lose wave power whenever the surface gets choppy or disturbed - it will be all loss of power and speed :(
Whereas with a wavefoil you will just gain and gain power no matter what surface you got, so you can ride on even the tiniest little nothing :rollgrin:


Regarding "Proper Wave foiling with a Kite":

I think we see exactly the same individual differences here, as when on waveboards.

Some seek to park the kite and surf, others want more power and like aggressive kiteflying - and some of us either a mix of both, or change depending on conditions.

With the old wavewings around 600 cm2, we would outrun the wave, so only the powerstyle was possible.

With the bigger wings we can do both, exactly as on a waveboard :thumb:

Meaning it favors almost all styles - no wonder they are so "Magical" for all of us :D

Although, when too big I find they become less fun eventually, and in some conditions - it is like you need more power to ride at higher speed if too big, compared to the medium ones that just glides faster effortlessly without kitepower.

One huge advantage is the angles we got on hydrofoils opens up a lot more options to ride on the waves, particularly if we use small kites so they dont hinder our turning "upwind" :D

I can not do the fancy tricks many of you can, but I like playing around riding waves, out yesterday for the first time in a couple of weeks (had to get some stitches out before I was allowed in the water again) in some small waves with a 5 m2 while TT riders where on their 12s, out on the 1200 cm2 Surf wing first, and later the 800 cm2 wave wing too - I like both as mentioned above


Image


Image


Great fun, especially because right now the day after it is close to the freezing point and snow forecasted this night :naughty:

We were 3 guys out on foils, my friend had a 600 cm2 "classic" wavefoil and a 6 m2 kite, and he said he was outrunning the waves and had to ride the aggressive turning style always, so he is in for a bigger medium wing now (probably not a huge Surf wing), that can do both styles.

I just found some kite/linecam pics from the last months, having fun riding different waves.
I know it might seem like nothing for many of you, but for me it feels great: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 248c4ee9f9

8) Peter

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby airsurfer » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:58 pm

nice shots Peter :thumb: those look like some fun waves for foiling

juandesooka
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby juandesooka » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:45 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:46 pm
I know it might seem like nothing for many of you, but for me it feels great
And there it is ... to paraphrase the old bumper stick, "only a foiler knows the feeling". Those photos look like nearly nothing to someone who doesn't know what they are looking at, but to you the rush of acceleration as your wing catches the wave energy and the sense of accomplishment at "making it" feels awesome. :thumb:

I was reflecting on this last week. I first rode my surfboard in kinda lame and boring conditions, maybe waist high swells, but no breaking waves. Then I switched to the foil and I'm suddenly having a blast, zipping around in the swells ... so what specifically transformed it? A small part of it may be the feeling of the foil catching the wave, but most it I think was the added challenge. It doesn't take much skill to do a top turn / bottom turn combo on a surfboard, but it's a major challenge on the foil ... and then do to it tight, while drifting the kite and coming out of the turn with speed to try it again and then again, linking turns......there's a lot going on, just getting through it successfully feels really good.

So, with humility factor set to maximum: I fear we may indeed be the juggling unicycle riders of the kite world. :lol:
unicycle wave.JPG
unicycle wave.JPG (48 KiB) Viewed 410 times

stevez
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby stevez » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:41 am

I think it's the best kept secret in this sport.
It's because it doesn't look like much, but that says nothing about how it feels.
It's an incomparably sublime feeling, foil on wave with no kite pull. For me nothing comes close.
You do need big wings to get the full experience.

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby plummet » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:52 am

So... I did an epic downwinder on sunday. About 40km as the crow fly's. But a lot further zipping back and forward.

Wind was about 23-25 knots. Real short period swell with waist to shoulder high waves and chop. It was basically death by 1000 waves! You would jump on one swell, ride it, pop off it and on the next and next and next and next and next and next and next and next. I was relentless fun that required high concentration. I was on the 6m which was too big, But none the less i trimmed and made it work. Man i got some good practice in. the downwinder took 4 hours to complete with a break half way at the 20km mark.

I had some awesome runs, carving on the swells at rediculous cant angle.,,, Holey moley it was intense fun for 3/4 of the first half. Then i started to crash more frequently. Higher wind wave foiling takes a lot of concentration!. I made it to the halfway mark and decided to put the foil down and take the mutant for the remainder.
That was super sweet as it was like starting fresh again. On the mutant i could be closer the beach, Hit the critical sections and then boooost off the kickers on the way back out. Ultimately the mutant was more fun than the foil. Dont get me wrong. The foil is sweeet and that memory of those super deep canted carves on the swell face is magic. But I can't foil with reckless abandon, like i can on the mutant. I cant wave ride and boost in the same session, same wind, same kite on the foil like i can on the mutant.

For me the foil is not the holey grail of sensations. It has some limitations which reduce the fun functor for my style of riding. But i opens up possibilities that where once impossible and extends my range of fun factor dramatically.
Will it taker over my other style? no it will not. It will sit along side it and be chosen with conditions and whim prevail.

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby tomtom » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:24 pm

Peters photos certainly doesnt looks like nothing - there is no reason for disclaimer. If you shoot his action from 3 person in turquise water with Giselle Bundchen as rider - you will have very nice action pics for any board sport magazine period.

The word you are looking for HF sensation is glide. On every board we ever ride - we are looking for glide. Every windsurfer remember the first time when board stops bogging and go into plane and start gliding. Same surfers, same snowboarders on smooth surface or powder. Same skateboarding in pool. Nothing even come closer for HF glide and if we dont need perfect condition for perfect glide.
He have best glide ever, so no need for apologizing anymore :)
This perfect glide also means on faster steeper wave with kite it can be too little resistance for kite which can be challenging and current kites have problem do deal with.

We just need to ride these waves to practice same way as surfers, windsurfer, and kitesurfers before - to look and feel good.

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby K-Roy » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:28 pm

I just had 6 weeks in Brasil.
As a keen SB rider, I almost didn't take my foil with me this time, thinking the waves are really fun only on a SB.
Well, I was sooo wrong. Foiling in a less then perfect conditions, turned my session in to a great one.
I had a 1000cm3 front wing, up to head high waves, aprox. 20 knots and a 6m kite on a strapless pocketboard.
My technical ability only allowed me to "play with caution " but still managed to turn on a wave face and ride without kite power by drifting the kite for some very satisfying runs.
And its just the beginning, I'm so stoked!
ps: the white foam of the waves for the foil are like Kryptonite to Superman...
:D

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby slowboat » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:40 pm

There is a lot of talk about turns on a wave. I just try to get a wave/swell to engage my foil and drift my kite and ride as long as possible. Then go back upwind and do it again. To me the key sensation is the energy of the water engaging the foil. Trying to turn a foil on a wave face is too hard at my skill level and not really necessary to get the sensation we are seeking.

juandesooka
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby juandesooka » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:25 pm

slowboat wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:40 pm
There is a lot of talk about turns on a wave. I just try to get a wave/swell to engage my foil and drift my kite and ride as long as possible. Then go back upwind and do it again. To me the key sensation is the energy of the water engaging the foil. Trying to turn a foil on a wave face is too hard at my skill level and not really necessary to get the sensation we are seeking.
Back to defining what "proper" means. If we're trying to impress our surfing friends, or even kitesurf friends, the measure is inevitably comparing to typical shortboard surfing: top to bottom turns right in the pocket, with vertical 180 turns on the wave face. Anything short of that is judged "lame" and "not really surfing".

But the funny thing is: when I am surfing these days, I am half the time on a longboard and now half the time on a sup, both of which I mostly just get trim and glide, with some slow swooping turns thrown in for variety. Realistically I haven't attempted a radical shortboard style in 15+ years ... so it's a little unrealistic to think I am suddenly going to have one on a foil! Looking at the foiling demographic, I see a lot more middle agers + than young rippers.

My point being, if comparing to surfing, the shortboard style is probably an unfair comparison. As TomTom says, if this is mostly about glide, then comparisons to longboarding may be more appropriate. And if so, the measure of performance may be less about being radical and more about doing it with style and grace. Something to think about maybe. :cool2:


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