Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Funalex ,Why Kites are Unstable and Autozenith

For all foil kite riders


foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1843
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Funalex ,Why Kites are Unstable and Autozenith

Postby foilholio » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:58 am

Very good article on reflex airfoils and paragliders.

http://www.epic-aviation.co.za/wp-conte ... liders.pdf
Reflex_Gliders.pdf
(605.18 KiB) Downloaded 36 times
From what I have read ARCs use a lot of reflex to hold their canopy open. Reflex also moves the center of lift or pressure forward, which would create the conditions for Autozenith.

KristianE86
Rare Poster
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:20 am
Kiting since: 2006
Local Beach: SVP
Style: Free Riding
Gear: FS
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Funalex ,Why Kites are Unstable and Autozenith

Postby KristianE86 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:36 am

Jamie-NYC wrote:Thanks for posting on this topic - of interest to me since I have just ordered a Pansh a15 18m to compliment an LEI quiver (I want to learn what foil kites are about, and have never seen one in my area, let alone had a chance to fly one). I have done many searches, but cannot find a single source for tuning information - what information there is comes from forums, uncompiled. I can see that there are useful data points in what you have posted, but they are single points on a map, with no path to connect them. Have I missed something - is there a good starting point for basic tuning information?
That is like saying: "I want to learn what smart phones are about, so I am going to get the cheapest one out there". It will give you somewhat of an idea, but you are unlikely to be impressed, and it is very possible that you would be better off with your old dumbphone.

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1843
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Funalex ,Why Kites are Unstable and Autozenith

Postby foilholio » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:49 pm

We will soon find out how good the A15 is. Pansh quality is about 70% that of flysurfer.

That analogy is a bit poor.

More like buying a cheap Chinese Smartphone for 1/6th the price vs a samsung or iphone. Wont be as durable, fast or compact. But next year you'll be able to buy one as fast and the year after as compact ,and the next 4 years a new phone every year faster and better than before and you will have still spent less than one iphone.

Jamie-NYC
Medium Poster
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:56 am
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Fire Island, New York
Gear: Best Kahoona 13.5m, 11.5m, 9.5m - Slingshot Turbine 17m - Pansh A15 18m
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Funalex ,Why Kites are Unstable and Autozenith

Postby Jamie-NYC » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:33 pm

KristianE86 wrote:
Jamie-NYC wrote:Thanks for posting on this topic - of interest to me since I have just ordered a Pansh a15 18m to compliment an LEI quiver (I want to learn what foil kites are about, and have never seen one in my area, let alone had a chance to fly one). I have done many searches, but cannot find a single source for tuning information - what information there is comes from forums, uncompiled. I can see that there are useful data points in what you have posted, but they are single points on a map, with no path to connect them. Have I missed something - is there a good starting point for basic tuning information?
That is like saying: "I want to learn what smart phones are about, so I am going to get the cheapest one out there". It will give you somewhat of an idea, but you are unlikely to be impressed, and it is very possible that you would be better off with your old dumbphone.
A foil kite is like a smart phone and an LEI kite is like a flip phone? Your analogy is weak at best. Even allowing for it, consider that Huawei makes some of the best smart phones in the world, and also the cheapest.

corbett
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Gear: Many
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Near Moscow

Re: Funalex ,Why Kites are Unstable and Autozenith

Postby corbett » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:58 pm

Jamie-NYC wrote:
KristianE86 wrote:
Jamie-NYC wrote:Thanks for posting on this topic - of interest to me since I have just ordered a Pansh a15 18m to compliment an LEI quiver (I want to learn what foil kites are about, and have never seen one in my area, let alone had a chance to fly one). I have done many searches, but cannot find a single source for tuning information - what information there is comes from forums, uncompiled. I can see that there are useful data points in what you have posted, but they are single points on a map, with no path to connect them. Have I missed something - is there a good starting point for basic tuning information?
That is like saying: "I want to learn what smart phones are about, so I am going to get the cheapest one out there". It will give you somewhat of an idea, but you are unlikely to be impressed, and it is very possible that you would be better off with your old dumbphone.
A foil kite is like a smart phone and an LEI kite is like a flip phone? Your analogy is weak at best. Even allowing for it, consider that Huawei makes some of the best smart phones in the world, and also the cheapest.
You sound nervous about your purchase Jamie :D

kitexpert
Frequent Poster
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2003
Gear: many kites, also diy
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Funalex ,Why Kites are Unstable and Autozenith

Postby kitexpert » Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:54 pm

foiliviers presentation is mostly showing how to make fixed AoA bridle with some Cad-program, not very relevant. This thing is best learned by studying existing bridles, and then designing and testing them in practice. Bridle design is closely connected to cell count and supporting structures inside cells. Some cell counts are preferable.

Link to reflexed airfoils is good. Problem in kitemaking is to choose stable enough airfoil (how much camber, reflex) for chosen type of kite. Different ARs require different airfoils. Traditional (normal?) gliders have high camber airfoils, totally unsuitable for depowerable kites.

If airfoil is not appropriate (and some other parameters wrong), kite may be too unstable/or impossible to depower (collapsing in low AoA). Some bridle adjustments help, but not without cost. Distorting airfoil to lower camber increases drag and decreases lift. When depower (and stability) is most needed, adjustments do not help a lot, if at all.

It really is interesting to hear how good A15 is. From the pictures it looks serious kite - bridle is improved too.

Jamie-NYC
Medium Poster
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:56 am
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Fire Island, New York
Gear: Best Kahoona 13.5m, 11.5m, 9.5m - Slingshot Turbine 17m - Pansh A15 18m
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Funalex ,Why Kites are Unstable and Autozenith

Postby Jamie-NYC » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:05 pm

corbett wrote:You sound nervous about your purchase Jamie :D
Kite arrived in 6 days, looks beautiful. Winter in the city, won't fly it until a TCI trip in a few weeks - not nervous, excited. Now, had I paid 6x the price for a lotus I would still be excited, but then I would surely be nervous.

corbett
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 725
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Gear: Many
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Near Moscow

Re: Funalex ,Why Kites are Unstable and Autozenith

Postby corbett » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:11 pm

Jamie-NYC wrote:
corbett wrote:You sound nervous about your purchase Jamie :D
Kite arrived in 6 days, looks beautiful. Winter in the city, won't fly it until a TCI trip in a few weeks - not nervous, excited. Now, had I paid 6x the price for a lotus I would still be excited, but then I would surely be nervous.
Ok fair enough :D get back to us after you've flown it.

Yes, a lotus car at that price will be very unreliable.

foilonfoil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:31 am
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Belmont Shore, CA / Hood River, OR
Favorite Beaches: Crissy Field, San Francisco, CA / Benicia, CA / Sail Bay, San Diego, CA / Hermosa Beach, CA
Style: Kitefoil
Gear: Current: Flysurfer Sonic 2's, Core Section V1's, MikesLab Foil, Camet Boards. Previous: AlpineFoil Carbon 5.0, Spotz Tuna/Shark, Banga
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Funalex ,Why Kites are Unstable and Autozenith

Postby foilonfoil » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:16 pm

Jamie-NYC wrote:...

Now, had I paid 6x the price for a lotus I would still be excited, but then I would surely be nervous.
Not sure if you actually know the cost of kites, but a used but in perfect condition 15M Flysurfer Sonic FR with bar set me back less than $1700. Any 4 line bar with single line flag works with both Ozone and Flysurfer kites so could be cheaper still if I sold the bar that came with it.

Jamie-NYC
Medium Poster
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:56 am
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Fire Island, New York
Gear: Best Kahoona 13.5m, 11.5m, 9.5m - Slingshot Turbine 17m - Pansh A15 18m
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Funalex ,Why Kites are Unstable and Autozenith

Postby Jamie-NYC » Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:13 pm

foilonfoil wrote:
Jamie-NYC wrote:...

Now, had I paid 6x the price for a lotus I would still be excited, but then I would surely be nervous.
Not sure if you actually know the cost of kites, but a used but in perfect condition 15M Flysurfer Sonic FR with bar set me back less than $1700. Any 4 line bar with single line flag works with both Ozone and Flysurfer kites so could be cheaper still if I sold the bar that came with it.
That sounds like a good deal on what is reported to be a great kite. So yes, in this case only just over 3x the price for a used kite (the a15 was $530 total with bar and 25m lines, all new).


Return to “Foil Kites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron