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Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

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foilholio
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Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:56 pm

When making bridles or lines to help keep them symmetrical I have found it useful to prestretch the line I am using as close to breaking as I can with ease.

To adjust lines you first need to take any shrink out of them. Applying a large even force to each line seems to work well. You can connect both lines in a chain so you can use your full body weight and the force is even.

A small rope run through a pulley with 2 lines connected to each end of the rope, the other ends to something solid and even, will allow you to apply even tension at different lengths. Sharpie marks made at the same point/s on each line close to the pulley end, can be used as a guide to adjust the lines later inside.

Making a single replacement bridle, you can leave one end unstitched to adjust later.

foilholio
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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:40 am

Amazes me how sensitive foils are to uneven front lines. If you have a flutter or folding tip on one side or uneven flying, check your front lines, but make sure you do it correctly.

Strange story ,I had a kite that flew a bit weird but sat neutral. The front lines were way out maybe 2 inchs. I adjusted them and then the kite flew to one side. I trimmed the canopy and now it flies great.

It's amazing how important a neutral flying kite is for more complicated tricks. If the kite wont fly straight you cant simply hold your hands in the middle of the bar without it going off somewhere.

foilholio
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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:51 am

You can simply try knots to replace bridles. Knots will allow you to easily adjust them later. As
there is almost no way to get it exactly right using different line or even the same line. I have come to the assumption different lines shrink at different rates. For knots you can choose from any variety of spectra/dyneema based fishing lines most not spliceable. If you would like to splice, Jerry Brown Line One Hollow is a great option. It is easier to splice than any other line/rope I have used, and that includes for the very fine low rated lines it comes in. Some thing I was particularly worried about when I First saw the thin flysurfer lines, but trust me you use this jerry browns stuff its easy.

The best way to get them as even as possible from the get go is to stretch the existing bridle and new bridle line with the same force. 10-15kg is usually enough. You could stretch the existing
with 15kg take a measurement. When you are making the new one stretch the line first. Make the
bridle. Maybe stretch it again when both splices are complete and adjust it.

To splice a line there is surely many videos that can be found on the net/youtube. You will need a
device to do it, some names for them are fids, wands, needles. I make my own that is universal. It
can splice thick rope to thin bridles. It is simply solid steel wire from the hardware store used to hang pictures. I cut a length and fold it in half. I open the end of the fold to insert the line or the tapered end of the line and then pinch it shut to hold onto it. Of course before that you will want to thread it though the inside of the line you are splicing.

Also add when you put lock stitches into a splice it will shorten the line. You can pull this shortening out with "enough" force. This is important when comparing two lines. Also make sure you take up any slack in the splices before you make a comparison or measurement. I.e. pull on them hard.

I find a snap shackle or hook tied to something solid, like a pillar, next to where I work very useful. Another snap shackle with a large amount of rope double over and over tied off, to give easy hand grip is very useful for pulling. You can also wrap line around said rope for which you dont have an end loop or the space to pull the full length. Say remaking splices on the end of 20-30m lines.

For making many bridles, a long piece of wood with a solid bolt/screw at one end is very useful. You can make markings on the wood to repeatedly reproduce bridles/ and or splices.

As I have read from kamikuza many times a tapered tail is important to maintain rope strength. Makes sense to me.

I am not an expert on any of this. I started this thread hoping some could add to or discuss what I know. If you find different info or even stuff that is particularly helpful, say videos etc, please do post them.

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby corbett » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:15 pm

foilholio wrote:
As I have read from kamikuza many times a tapered tail is important to maintain rope strength. Makes sense to me.

I am not an expert on any of this. I started this thread hoping some could add to or discuss what I know. If you find different info or even stuff that is particularly helpful, say videos etc, please do post them.
I have to admit, I never ever taper a tail on my 2.5mm+ rope(speed system etc).

I also never burn the rope end, leaving a sharp tail.

I would taper tail on flying lines just incase.

I once by mistake, ran a non tapered tail over a pulley for a long time and again, no problems.

I always use marlow d12.

foilholio
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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:40 am

Would be great to see some more data to back it up. I never used burned tails in splices. That ones just blaringly obviously stupid. Plus making a splice with a burnt tail would be a nightmare. I think when you are looking at the thicker pulley lines, the working and breaking loads never get any where close enough that the criticality of the splice is important. I started noticing the tapered tails on flysurfer flying lines, they generally dont do something without some founding in science. The main reason I see first for tapering is some lines are practically impossible to splice without using them, you just can't pull a double of the line through. I think I'll give this one a test myself actually, it's simple enough and I have some thin lines I can break without a sweat. There is vector forces where forces can approach infinity in a rope, hard/tight bends in knots that weaken rope etc so it's not unfounded. Should be interesting.

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby corbett » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:47 am

foilholio wrote:Would be great to see some more data to back it up. I never used burned tails in splices. That ones just blaringly obviously stupid. Plus making a splice with a burnt tail would be a nightmare. I think when you are looking at the thicker pulley lines, the working and breaking loads never get any where close enough that the criticality of the splice is important. I started noticing the tapered tails on flysurfer flying lines, they generally dont do something without some founding in science. The main reason I see first for tapering is some lines are practically impossible to splice without using them, you just can't pull a double of the line through. I think I'll give this one a test myself actually, it's simple enough and I have some thin lines I can break without a sweat. There is vector forces where forces can approach infinity in a rope, hard/tight bends in knots that weaken rope etc so it's not unfounded. Should be interesting.
I've spent hours(years ago) trying to find some test or evidence to back up the claimed benefits of tapered tails and I found nothing worth telling you but one PDF file from a boating club claimed "neatness" :D .

Any test will be on brand new rope anyway, I want to see long term.

foilholio
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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:58 am

Neatness HAHAHA nice lol!

I am just going to just make some and break them, hopefully something will stand out. I might test splice lengths as well.

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby corbett » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:13 am

foilholio wrote:Neatness HAHAHA nice lol!

I am just going to just make some and break them, hopefully something will stand out. I might test splice lengths as well.
And what about thread stitching? does that take any load? some splices in kiting are so short that it must do.

Btw, did you see the FS thread by Flyrob? you'd have a ball.

foilholio
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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:15 am

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2374010

I did read it a long time ago, I am new to posting here. It's kinda believable in flyrobs case, though it's a bit 50/50 who is at fault. Any number of things could have caused that line to break or that damage to occur, most of them user related. I just read a little of it, not going to read it again, but a number of things flyrob says/does don't bode well for it being flysurfers fault. BUT on the other hand flysurfer was seemingly having a post GFC quality moment ,dear god,and how can anyone absolutely be sure everything will be fault free. The line could have even been damaged in the post! Flysurfer do have their free repair though. So even if its your fault they will still fix it. Also Liros line must be the best you can get.

You can definitely make a splice shorter with stitching, as it takes load. But a pure splice is stronger. Most likely the stitches unevenly distribute stress and the needle damages the rope.

foilholio
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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:40 am

Small test hardly definitive. Jerrybrown line one 200lb test. I used 2 pulleys to quadruple load and a strain gauge that only goes to 100lb. Both 10cm splices to tip including taper.

The square cut broke at 69lb, times 4 equals 276lb break. The taper was about 20degrees and broke at 71lb times 4 equals 284lbs. So about 3 percent difference, hardly a lot or exact. The gauge is quite difficult to catch the break load as it climbs very quickly just before breaking, the 4X multiplying doesn't help with that. I caught the square cut break load nearly exactly, but may have missed some of the taper, so it could be higher, and therefore the difference.

The interesting bit is the square cut broke on exactly the square cut. The taper broke about 10cm away from the splice on the main line. So to use my fishing experience the tapered is stronger. The taper is also much neater looking done right, the transition from splice to line is invisible. Which may have tangle free benefits.

You'll also notice jerry brown line breaks well above test, which is common for that brand and many premium fishing lines.


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