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Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

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Kamikuza
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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby Kamikuza » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:29 am

The old style FS pigtails have square ends in them and 5 of them have broken on me, right at the square ends. A lot of things I do are because paranoia...

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:32 pm

It obviously creates a weak point, just not much. I'll test some more and try to get better numbers. Maybe the square end creates more wear over time, eventually thoroughly weakening the line.

Those FS pigtails, the front and rear mains, look strong but they all are only one section of line in the middle. One full splice with just an 8 knot on the end would be stronger and cleaner than current with rings. But I prefer old setup with ELCs for less tangles. No ELCs/rings is cleanest, but any mixer work involves removing all 4 lines. Maybe I will try it as pulleys lines last so long anyway.

I weighed some rings and ELCs. FS ELC 2.7g, pansh ELC 3.4g, FS little ring 0.6g, FS slightly bigger ring 0.9g. Wow those ELCs are actually quite heavy. Ok I am going to try with out.

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:13 am

Some more tests all tapered, same line.
2cm tail 11lbx4=44lb break well the splice slipped loose.
5cm tail 58lbx4=232lb break on splice near the eye.
10cm tail again 68.5lbx4=274lb break on splice near tail.

On the last one being lower than the previous test. It could be because I didn't put enough effort into tapering the tail as nice. Most likely it just shows the inaccuracies of my testing method.

The line is approximately 0.5mm. That would make the 5cm tail 100x rope diameter and the 10cm 200x diameter. Both are higher than the recommended 80ish I have read around the net. As you can see there is still strength to be gained above 100x. Flysurfer uses about 15cm splices on it's 1.5to2mm lines. Which would be 75x to 100x,i.e. about recommended. It may be just the line I am using is particularly slippery and requires a longer splice.

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and l

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:31 am

foilholio wrote:It obviously creates a weak point, just not much. I'll test some more and try to get better numbers. Maybe the square end creates more wear over time, eventually thoroughly weakening the line.

Those FS pigtails, the front and rear mains, look strong but they all are only one section of line in the middle. One full splice with just an 8 knot on the end would be stronger and cleaner than current with rings. But I prefer old setup with ELCs for less tangles. No ELCs/rings is cleanest, but any mixer work involves removing all 4 lines. Maybe I will try it as pulleys lines last so long anyway.

I weighed some rings and ELCs. FS ELC 2.7g, pansh ELC 3.4g, FS little ring 0.6g, FS slightly bigger ring 0.9g. Wow those ELCs are actually quite heavy. Ok I am going to try with out.
I've made pig tails out of thicker Amsteel (3.2mm?) with rings for the 21 which work great, and another set with just a knot in the loop that I haven't actually used yet... I figure the difference in thickness between the pig tail and the lines will be enough to keep them secure. The knots are not bulky.

Pulley lines (SPL) don't last forever -- first day of my holiday, first 10 minutes, the bloody thing broke :( rotten timing. I'm making new ones out of 3mm dyneema...!

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:52 pm

You got to replace them before holiday or bring spares. 3mm used to be a bit of a thing on foilzone a long time ago. I tried it and it's far too bulky/heavy. 2mm is well sufficient. I am thinking of using ~1.5mm kite line.

Do you replace the pulleys at the same time? Old pulleys destroy the rope quite quick. Do you wash your pulleys every session? Do you land on sand or grass? If you land on sand I would give extra attention to washing the pulleys.

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:31 pm

foilholio wrote:You got to replace them before holiday or bring spares. 3mm used to be a bit of a thing on foilzone a long time ago. I tried it and it's far too bulky/heavy. 2mm is well sufficient. I am thinking of using ~1.5mm kite line.

Do you replace the pulleys at the same time? Old pulleys destroy the rope quite quick. Do you wash your pulleys every session? Do you land on sand or grass? If you land on sand I would give extra attention to washing the pulleys.
The original pig tails? They are just regular line, near as I can tell. A few grams isn't going to bother me, I can take a good dump before kiting if it was an issue.

I actually have Cabrinha pulleys on the 15; they're more solid and on my tubes, have remained tight and fresh for years with zero care and attention. I wonder if sloppy pulleys aren't a design feature for the Sprengers...

Usually check the pulleys aren't jammed up before launching. Usually take spare SPL and some LCLs with me on holiday but forgot this time.

Been meaning to try DIY dyneema SPLs though, so now it a good time. Next pulleys might be Orbit 20s just because...

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:33 am

No I was referring to using 3mm on the SPL not on the pigtails. Though 3mm is a bit overkill for pigtails too. I was just pointing out the way FS uses it's current pigtails, they could make them smaller, lighter and stronger. They could definitely trim some fat from the mixer too.

Grams at the kite are a whole lot different than the rider. If you just let a few grams pass here and there when designing you soon have kilos extra. You start to get a bit gram obsessive when youre hunting for every last drop of performance. Designing good aircraft, weight is one of the utmost important considerations.

I found the orbits jam easy with sand. And they are heavy/big, so more tangles.

I was just asking how you handle your gear because I don't really have the issues you do. If you aren't rinsing stuff, things like the axle on the pulley will get corroded quicker and jam easier. Plus salt seems to make things sticky, so you might start out with unjammed pulleys but then quickly pick up sand on the beach. You could always drop your kite at the start of a session to give it a rinse :-P

Anyway I look at maintenance and handling gear well as not just a way to make it last long/save money, but to maintain performance/safety as high as possible. No one is going to replace stuff every session. So you need to think what simple things you can do so next time you use your gear it's in the best possible condition.

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby corbett » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:47 am

Given the title of this thread, I think discussing how to make a jig/line guide to hold bridle lines on a sewing machine to sew them would be appropriate.

I've read about cutting cardboard but..........................Any ideas?

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby foilholio » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:38 am

Far too on topic there! HEHE

yes I would like to know how that is done aswell.

The way I do it ,to keep the line or loop accurate, I just a put pin though both lines at 90degrees where I want the loop to start. When I sew the loop as long as the pin is still at 90 degrees the length will be exact. The sewing machine usually pulls both lines together nicely from where the pin starts. But a jig would be good and I have seen them used in some video/s. Sewing a zigzag on thin bridles is hardly easy without one.

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Re: Tips Making/adjusting bridles and line

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:43 am

foilholio wrote:No I was referring to using 3mm on the SPL not on the pigtails. Though 3mm is a bit overkill for pigtails too. I was just pointing out the way FS uses it's current pigtails, they could make them smaller, lighter and stronger. They could definitely trim some fat from the mixer too.

Grams at the kite are a whole lot different than the rider. If you just let a few grams pass here and there when designing you soon have kilos extra. You start to get a bit gram obsessive when youre hunting for every last drop of performance. Designing good aircraft, weight is one of the utmost important considerations.

I found the orbits jam easy with sand. And they are heavy/big, so more tangles.

I was just asking how you handle your gear because I don't really have the issues you do. If you aren't rinsing stuff, things like the axle on the pulley will get corroded quicker and jam easier. Plus salt seems to make things sticky, so you might start out with unjammed pulleys but then quickly pick up sand on the beach. You could always drop your kite at the start of a session to give it a rinse :-P

Anyway I look at maintenance and handling gear well as not just a way to make it last long/save money, but to maintain performance/safety as high as possible. No one is going to replace stuff every session. So you need to think what simple things you can do so next time you use your gear it's in the best possible condition.
I thought I got 3mm but we couldn't find the sizes so it's just what looked right. Fits the pulley well but is thicker than the original SPL. So far so good... Marlow 12-strand I think. Suspiciously close to the originals in length--just a few mm to adjust C mixer.

My thinking was a single square knot in the eye of the pigtail is bulky enough to be a good stopper but no more bulky than the rings. And stronger... next time I may go for thinner but that'll require a trip to the store.

People say that about the Orbits, but I never found that when I put them on the Synergys. Maybe our sand is coaster and less sticky...?

Yeah, I'm going to start wrapping up to and past the SPLs and washing the whole shebang. Got to be a good start :D


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