If I've understood foilholio's posts, shrinking SPL aren't an issue so long as you don't run out of adjustment and/or the depower isn't compromised with the shortened travel.Jzh_perth wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:46 pmFrom the point of view of a retailer who often sells secondhand FLYSURFER’s - can someone clarify for me how effective the short mixer test (levelling AZ then BC) and regularly replacing the pulley lines is ? Much of what I read in this thread seems to relate to the SMT not correcting for shrinking pulley lines - it all makes sense, but it’s such an easy thing to do I tend to do it on all second hand kites I sell. Installing a new bridle would not be an option for obvious reasons.
In my personal experience the FS foils tend to need more trim pulled on to stop backstalling as they age, but otherwise still fly pretty well. To me that’s a sign of short steering lines and easily rectified.
I’m curious how much performance new SPL and a basic mixer “balance” can restore compared to when the kite was new ? Does this correct a majority of the problems ? What else can I do to look after the customer ?
https://vimeo.com/9488886foilholio wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:12 amAs to camber change with shrink, I think things tend towards less camber not more. You would need MORE than double the shrink of Z than C before you get any camber increase! What you will probably find with most shrink is C is engaging now too early creating earlier stall and less stability.
Foilholio, I have a few questions with respect to B limited depower and your Z-mod.foilholio wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:20 pmYes BUT you can achieve the same and in fact better results without the SPL swap. If your pulley lines are worn sure swap them, but trust me you'll be getting less than a quarter of the life out of pulley lines if you are swapping them just for shrink. Then there is the upper bridle shrink which you won't fix with just new pulley lines or B and C. If you're on a remote beach with no new pulley lines and would like a bit more performance? Z-mod.
Even with new pulley lines I often set my mixer on the middle knot then I can move either way for more stability or more performance. Nice simple little option can't understand how it's not standard setup. Flysurfer could add a couple more knots and length and most mixer adjusts through B and C could be avoided, undoing a larks head and moving it is so much simpler to think with and do. Think of it, "oh your kites doing this" move it down a knot and try that. Easy. Technically it would be better to move Z and not the pulley line, which would be easy to design.
My Elf has Z pigtails, and you're right, it's definitely an easy-mode swap for more power/stability based on what the wind is doing, but for most people I would not recommend that mod on a Flysurfer as simply replacing stock parts and using the built in tuning system just seems so much easier and reliable. I get that you won't ever get back to factory tune, but I've not flownfoilholio wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:20 pmYes BUT you can achieve the same and in fact better results without the SPL swap. If your pulley lines are worn sure swap them, but trust me you'll be getting less than a quarter of the life out of pulley lines if you are swapping them just for shrink. Then there is the upper bridle shrink which you won't fix with just new pulley lines or B and C. If you're on a remote beach with no new pulley lines and would like a bit more performance? Z-mod.
Even with new pulley lines I often set my mixer on the middle knot then I can move either way for more stability or more performance. Nice simple little option can't understand how it's not standard setup. Flysurfer could add a couple more knots and length and most mixer adjusts through B and C could be avoided, undoing a larks head and moving it is so much simpler to think with and do. Think of it, "oh your kites doing this" move it down a knot and try that. Easy. Technically it would be better to move Z and not the pulley line, which would be easy to design.
5. Replace your quiver with Sonic Race's that have 3 pulley bridles that let you tune your wing tips apart from the rest of the kiteHenk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:57 pm- To tune a used foil, what are the best steps to follow? Maybe next sequence:
1. Measure A/B difference and do the Z mod with the deviation from 25 cm
2. Mixer level, if needed extend C if not enough SPL available (or swap SPL, or would that mean you swap the SPL way earlier then normal wear would require?)
3. Long mixer test to level cord-wise bridle shrink (where Z is typically shrinking most and A the least)
4. If the kite has many flying hours, span-wise shrinkage might result in too short wing tip bridles. Compensate by comparing wing tip bridles with line plan and make extension loops from LCL bridle material to be placed between kite and bridle.
On the kites I have seen NO. This is a limit imposed by the mixer, stand on your front line at the mixer and pull on B, it stops and the rear line is slack. Extend the rear lines past this point will just make them more slack, observed as a bow or arc in the air. When you have some bow or arc in your rear lines you have no more depower at the bar. When you have a bow or arc in the B gallery of bridles you have reached the limit of depower for that kite ( without altering the sewn shape).
Yes it will move your bar position, there is a wonderful thing call a trimmer to fix that It will also change the sheet range/position of the kite, for that you may need to adjust your line lengths. The best way to trim lines is use the trimmer, adjust the lines when you are running out of trimmer. Advanced foil flying needs backstall so having that available with the trimmer is a must, even lines is kooky
We get the 25cm from 1/4 of the factory 100cm C SPL, factor in some shrink of B in the upper bridles say 2cm and you have 27cm.Henk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:57 pm- To tune a used foil, what are the best steps to follow? Maybe next sequence:
1. Measure A/B difference and do the Z mod with the deviation from 25 cm
2. Mixer level, if needed extend C if not enough SPL available (or swap SPL, or would that mean you swap the SPL way earlier then normal wear would require?)
3. Long mixer test to level cord-wise bridle shrink (where Z is typically shrinking most and A the least)
4. If the kite has many flying hours, span-wise shrinkage might result in too short wing tip bridles. Compensate by comparing wing tip bridles with line plan and make extension loops from LCL bridle material to be placed between kite and bridle.
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