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DIY leading edge battens?

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Kamikuza
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DIY leading edge battens?

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:03 am

Can't believe nobody has played with this, considering it's just weed eater line...

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Re: DIY leading edge battens?

Postby foilholio » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:48 am

I am not sold on them. They make packing a pain, you cant pack as small, add a considerable about of weight, I would guess 150g+, and create wear points. As to adding them, sewing the LE is very difficult ,as is getting access to it. You are probably looking at 20hours work. Where as when the kite is made it would add about 1 hour. Removing them could be done very quick maybe 2 hours. :D

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Re: DIY leading edge battens?

Postby Bille » Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:23 pm

Kamikuza wrote:Can't believe nobody has played with this, considering it's just weed eater line...
Ya got to consider that you will get a LOT of resistance from self-centered, and over-opinionated
people ; when-ever someone dares to defy the status quo , for the current state of the art !! :roll:

If the gains equal the disadvantages, in any experiment ; then it's Worth the knowledge learned !! :thumb:

BTW -- you don't need to separate the LE , to install what your suggesting ; and they will
actually help resist wear points , (if placed in the proper locations). It cracks me up, when a
guy says a performance increase ; is not worth a slightly larger packing job !! :lol:
Packing up a 1990 era PG , was a LOT easier than the PG's we have today ; but the 1990 models
can't even Begin to compete, with the gliders of today.

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Re: DIY leading edge battens?

Postby plummet » Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:22 pm

foilholio wrote:I am not sold on them. They make packing a pain, you cant pack as small, add a considerable about of weight, I would guess 150g+, and create wear points.
I am sold. After going from speed 3 no battens to chrono with them. I can see the difference in le shape!.....

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Re: DIY leading edge battens?

Postby foilholio » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:59 pm

Yes but how much of the chrono's thinner profile, higher AR, higher PA, lightness, thinner bridles(less drag) is what you like vs the speed 3. Basically how much extra performance do the battens get you. It may be something like mini TE ribs offers more performance. The speed3 was designed the change PA and the front go flat. It is something many people complained about because it affects the absolute low end. Also when the fabric gets more porous(old) the flattening on the LE gets worse.

Bille no you wont need to separate the LE but getting in there to sew is difficult and will still be needed. The only option to reduce wear would be to place them further back? They definitely do create wear points get dragged on the ground, read some posts from peak and original speed 4 users about it. Packing is an issue for some, people prefer open cells and single skins for this reason. Not everything is about pure L/D. Kites are used vastly outside what paragliders normally experience. They get smashed and dragged into the ground,water,ice, lose line tension regularly, get rolled in waves, used in weather and wind of a much wider range.

Negative opinion is good, choosing not to agree with it when it is wrong is the trick.

Even if nothing is gained something is always learned.
Last edited by foilholio on Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: DIY leading edge battens?

Postby plummet » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:28 pm

foilholio wrote:Also when the fabric gets more porous(old) the flattening on the LE gets worse.
Exactly. I expect the battens to hold le shape longer. When the kite gets porous.

Lastly. The manufacturers adding them would not add them if they didnt improve performance!... Why the hell add them otherwise? Particularly the bleeding edge race kites. The are after race performance only,,,,

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Re: DIY leading edge battens?

Postby foilholio » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:38 pm

I don't doubt one bit they add performance, but not being able to pack a kite super small is a large issue to me, and if you look at the ozone tech talk they really need to be packed in a special way to prevent damage, that just about ends it for me. Maybe though if the performance was hugely better I could consider, but one of my main drivers weight will still be worse and how I use kites drifting them, a flat nose, more draggy C shape from projected area change actually improves this.


Oh and if some brings up the peaks use battens but pack small. They would pack much smaller without them and don't have to deal with trapped air. Even then if you look at videos from hardwaterkiter there is special packing techniques to deal with the battens.

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Re: DIY leading edge battens?

Postby Bille » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:38 am

@ foilholio

I wasn't very nice, in my last post ; would Ya please take my apology ?
Being in a bad mood ; is no excuse to be mean !! :nono:

Bille

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Re: DIY leading edge battens?

Postby foilholio » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:32 am

That's fine you're entitled to your opinion. Was a bit strange though. Sure I can be self centered and opinionated, but I wasn't quite sure what I had done to draw that out of you :-? I get your point of view coming from higher performance wings as HG and PG. For me I understand that and I love better performing wings, but how I use kites and I am sure others do is not all about raw L/D performance. I am interested in total enjoyment, so things like packing up,setup, durability, wind range, etc are also important to me. As well I ride at a fringe were few others do, I like surfing with no line tension and getting out in as little wind as possible. In the last few years more people seem to be joining me in light wind on hydrofoils or in higher wind surfing, mainly because the gear is becoming more prevalent and the understanding of it more accurate. I get annoyed when I hear incorrect statements about the kites I ride or even what is possible on a kite. For the most part I bite my tongue, but here I like to voice my opinions because at least I know they carry a bit more and find the right listeners. If you disagree with something, say it, the truth comes out that way.

Thinking of carbon on kites. Did you see paraavis's gvx? They use carbon battens in the LE. I wonder if suspending the carbon in a flexible kite cell will help it tolerate impacts better?
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Last edited by foilholio on Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kamikuza
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Re: DIY leading edge battens?

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:40 am

Sonic 9 was the kite I got to look at and rub my greasy finders over, so maybe others are different...

But the "battens" look suspiciously like the round 2.2mm trimmer line at the DIY. Same color and stiffness. Holds a shape just enough but otherwise is quite flexible without being brittle.

They're not sewn in the whole way around--I bet there's a pocket on either end and that's it. They're shaped like a flattened "C" with the ends pointing inwards.

It's easy enough to get at the LE through the vents. I've repaired split ribs in the wing tips by (gently!) pulling the material out through vents and holes in the ribs. You'd have to sew the pockets by hand though.... Time-consuming, but doable.

Just wondering if it's really as simple as it seems :D


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