Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

First foil kite flight. Wingtips keep folding and tangling?

For all foil kite riders


norcom
Frequent Poster
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:51 pm
Kiting since: 0
Style: waves
Gear: Too much to list these days. Currently mostly a v3 Cabo's and Spleene Zone fan
Location: Florida

Re: First foil kite flight. Wingtips keep folding and tangling?

Postby norcom » Sun May 29, 2016 5:01 am

foilholio wrote:Yes it should come down on the trailing edge. Some times if you pull too much of the rear lines the kite will invert and reverse launch. Is that what happened?
Not sure if it inverted but I don't think so. It happened pretty fast, hit the ground hard leading edge first and was still. I was holding it for a few seconds before it started to want to relaunch and I punched out.

Should I have depowered the kite all the way while doing this? I'm thinking shortening front lines would have helped now but I didn't do it.

windrider1
Frequent Poster
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:51 am
Kiting since: 2003
Gear: FLYSURFER, HQ KITES, OZONE KITES
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: NY

Re: First foil kite flight. Wingtips keep folding and tangling?

Postby windrider1 » Sun May 29, 2016 5:18 am

I dont think its s good idea to land the kite with the brake strap. That's alot of powr to hold dwn with just a brakestrap . I think once u can kitesurf with it its too much power to risk. I usually just bring the kite to the edge of the wind window and them release it. very little power after and might spin once ir twice but never had any issues or tangles. And by the way the sonic has the same problem in tht if the tips collspse u have to pull hard on the back lines which induces s mini stall . But then when u release the backlines there is a surge in power which is a little scary if ure flying close to the top of its windrange and thsts the one thing i dont like about it . But luckily tip issues are rare with the sonic.

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1843
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: First foil kite flight. Wingtips keep folding and tangling?

Postby foilholio » Sun May 29, 2016 5:23 am

norcom wrote:
foilholio wrote:Yes it should come down on the trailing edge. Some times if you pull too much of the rear lines the kite will invert and reverse launch. Is that what happened?
Not sure if it inverted but I don't think so. It happened pretty fast, hit the ground hard leading edge first and was still. I was holding it for a few seconds before it started to want to relaunch and I punched out.

Should I have depowered the kite all the way while doing this? I'm thinking shortening front lines would have helped now but I didn't do it.
It should hit trailing edge first. What you describe sounds like an inversion follow by the inevitable relaunch in reverse. It will happen instantly.

If you depower by letting the brake strap out a bit you can recover it. But what you did by releasing is correct , as it usually goes all wrong with kites flipping and twisting and all sorts. Knowing your setup and exactly how much you can pull and what is too much is important. I like flysurfer's ball positions as they are just about right, with them making it hard but not impossible to invert the kite when reversing it. You can play with you depower or move knots like for the brake strap, but it's best just to get a feel first with how it is setup now for what is correct. You may have been pulling the strap into some really unnatural position , where as you didn't need to. Flysurfer balls are at about 50cm, I just about pull them to to the bar or maybe just past and that is enough. That is all off memory though. Another thing that you often see in videos .although it is easier, is people reverse the kite at full speed slamming it into the ground, this CAN NOT be good for the kites. I like to back it down slow or a bit fast and then slow it right down just before it hits the ground, so it's very soft.

evan
Frequent Poster
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:48 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: Brouwersdam
Style: Hydrofoil - Big Air
Gear: Levitaz Bionic
Peter Lynn Aero
Brand Affiliation: Infexion
Peter Lynn
Contact:

Re: First foil kite flight. Wingtips keep folding and tangling?

Postby evan » Sun May 29, 2016 10:14 am

They don't magically fly backwards, you still need to steer the kite and play with the amount of backstall induced by the brakestrap.

We always sidelaunch (45deg downwind) our R1's with no pre-inflation and most of the time it fills in seconds. Only in very light winds (<8kn> we pull them from side to fully downwind and have to keep them stalled downwind untill they are inflated. Setting up on the side is much faster, only roll them out and put a handfull of sand on one wingtip. Just make sure your bar is setup so the kite stalls on max power so you don't need the brake strap and have more control.

Here you see my sidelaunch in action witch 9m Chrono V2 in 25kn+ wind:



Landing with power is pretty sketchy and we always land with the halp of a friend since we are never alone around here. When you are alone the only option when overpowerd is to activate the safety and deal with the mess.

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1843
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: First foil kite flight. Wingtips keep folding and tangling?

Postby foilholio » Sun May 29, 2016 10:50 am

Calling a 45degree launch a side launch would be just as accurate as calling it a downwind launch. Anyway side launches done at what ever angle are much more complicated. Down wind launch allows you to easily sort out your lines and bridle without having to run over them. There is a downwind launching method which doesn't sand the whole TE, but just each tip. From rolled kite and wrapped bar to flying in 1 minute is not too hard:-) Always perks the interest of inflatos.


I must admit I have limited use of a strap but I instantly didn't like it because I had less control, it gets in the way with spinning the bar, it also limits the amount of tension you can place on one steering line particularly making relaunching harder when you try to rotate the kite. It does however make landing seem easier in a way, just pull one thing and down it comes and I think initial relaunching reverse is quicker as you only have one thing to grab, the rotating part is not. Often getting smashed in the surf I find grabbing the extra ball can take a few more precious seconds. Of particular notice in light wind getting enough room off the water and then transitioning the kite into a rotation is much more effective with balls. You just let go of one and you have an instant full rotation or helicopter.

norcom
Frequent Poster
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:51 pm
Kiting since: 0
Style: waves
Gear: Too much to list these days. Currently mostly a v3 Cabo's and Spleene Zone fan
Location: Florida

Re: First foil kite flight. Wingtips keep folding and tangling?

Postby norcom » Mon May 30, 2016 6:37 am

Had no issues launching the kite today, went up and inflated on first try. Seemed like the wind was picking up but it died as soon as I rode out fifty yards. Messed up the transition and put the kite in the drink. The kite bowtied on the way down and started to get filled up with water. I think trying to save it with the brake strap's what messed it up. I punched out and commenced my first foil kite self rescue.

Ugh, I now hate foil kites with a passion! How the f**k do you drag the thing onto the beach after you self rescue and half of it is full of water?! Each cell is open only towards the LE and you can't drain the kite via the inlfation holes at the LE! :angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire: So you have to move the water towards the LE and then move it to one of the wing tips. THAT SUCKS! I tried the center deflation hole but that didn't work very well.

After I finally managed to drag the POS on to the beach. Right side lines untangled pretty quick, left side no such luck. That's the side that I scrunched the bar on and all the lines and it's also the side that filled up with water. It was an awful rats nest.

Couldn't get the left side to untangle freely. Three hours later after taking the speed system apart, I think it's back together properly. The sun went down just as I was putting together the last of the speed system.

On one side I'm stoked that I know how the speed system is setup now, on the other side I'm not sure when the next time I'll try to launch this thing. Seems like an expensive lesson but hopefully everything's OK. I could have had as much fun after my 18m FS Boost dropped out of the sky and I would have saved two hours and forty five minutes. :lol:

I broke the #1 rule of light wind kiting and dropped the kite. I knew this moment would come, I just didn't want it to come today. :lol:

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1843
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: First foil kite flight. Wingtips keep folding and tangling?

Postby foilholio » Mon May 30, 2016 7:40 am

LoL Foils punish for poor flying and you have one of the hardest to fly that exists!

Brake strap should have helped.

Is there no holes in the TE to drain the water? That would make relaunching near impossible. What about holes in the cell walls to vent air between cells?

Ideally you self rescue and roll it before water gets in. If you do get water in you need to slowly drag it out so the water drains. Flying/relaunching it is a good way to get the water out! Hard to believe I know :-) Obviously if the kite is not well designed to drain the water none of this is going to go too well. Most of my kites take a truly very long time for water to get in. I always hear ozones fill up with water and can't be relaunched I wonder what they are doing wrong. It must perplexed new race foil kiters how I relaunch a foil after it is eaten by a wave.
norcom wrote: taking the speed system apart
I am going to assume you disconnected the lines as well? :-( You made some very big mistakes and payed with lots of time unnecessarily. The concept of leaving things connected just can not be repeated enough. You are just going to waste time and miss out on enjoying the kites if you do that and don't have a bar for each kite and leave it on. Especially when you get a tangle! you will not help yourself disconnecting anything. Work out how to do it while it is still connected. You will thank me one day, even inflatables are best left connected for tangles.


You can drop the kite in light wind, not great but not the end of the world. Your mistake is you probably overflew the kite. These kites overfly because they are high performance. Setup your bar to have some backstall and use it early and often. Park the kite at 12, foils drift best on slack lines there. Pull both rears or the brake hard if anything goes wrong or you get a collapse. HOLD THE REARS until the kite opens up correctly. There is a myriad of other techniques but they are the basics.

Lastly maybe detune your kite a bit by moving that knot up and so lengthening Z, like I originally advised but for the tip folding. It will make the kite easier to fly, like more stable. You can move it back when you get better.

norcom
Frequent Poster
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:51 pm
Kiting since: 0
Style: waves
Gear: Too much to list these days. Currently mostly a v3 Cabo's and Spleene Zone fan
Location: Florida

Re: First foil kite flight. Wingtips keep folding and tangling?

Postby norcom » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:24 pm

Taking the mixer apart wasn't that bad. I didn't disconnect any of the lines from the kite, just the mixer. And now I understand how the whole thing works, so it was worth the lesson. There was no way I could untangle the rats nest that happened without disassembly, I couldn't find a decent starting point to even loosen a single loop, it was that bad.

Seems like everything got hooked back up properly but I spent the last two days on tubes so didn't try the R1 again. Hopefully I didn't miss anything.

The kite does have internal drain holes between each cell. The ones at the TE are TINY and the middle ones vary in size. Wish they had some zippers/velcro on the TE in case of stuff like this. It would take a while to drain a few gallons of water to one of the ends through the TE holes. :-?

Drying the kite was a pain but I figured out how to inflate it during 0-3mph winds. Now someone just needs to run some power to the beach. :lol: Yes, I know some people use handheld blowers to do something like this but I need A LOT more practice to fly this thing in super light winds before I start bringing a blower. :lol:
r1.jpg
R1 light wind inflation

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1843
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: First foil kite flight. Wingtips keep folding and tangling?

Postby foilholio » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:17 pm

Trust me you believe you couldn't do it without disconnecting but you can, you just need to learn. Use the lines as your way out. Just keep trying to loosen any and everything never tighten. Big bulky pigtails do make it a pain and is one reason why I don't use them, that and they cause tangles in the first place.

The R1 looks beautiful. Interesting how flat the middle cells are but the tips are still ballooning.

I have a big computer fan on a notebook powersupply I stick in the air inlet. Although I could dry my kites with it I don't. I either fly them dry or I don't dry them. Usually salt water takes many months before mold starts to grow. I have dried kites by just laying them on the floor or hanging over some drying racks. They dry pretty quick inside and no UV damage!.

User avatar
mgs
Medium Poster
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:55 am
Kiting since: 2000
Style: Cruising/Skimboarding/Flat Water/Waves
Gear: Ozone Chrono V1 18m/12m/9m
Zap Skimboard & Twin Tip
Location: England

Re: First foil kite flight. Wingtips keep folding and tangling?

Postby mgs » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:34 pm

Hey Norcom - Looks like you have had quite a time with your R1, :D I suggest you put that experience behind you and get ready to start again.

When I took delivery of my first Chrono (18m) I did the following, basic and obvious I know but essential in my opinion.

· Read the manual front to back
· Laid the kite out in garden in order to study the kite and bridle configuration
· Checked how the bar was setup and chicken loop assembly worked
· Checked to make sure that I knew how to connect the lines to the kite

First Launch/Flight
Launching a “closed cell foil kite” is very different to an “open cell foil kite” having mainly flown open cell kites over the years. Open cell kites launch fully inflated immediately as compared with “closed cell foils” that don’t.
Chrono's take off partially inflated in which the wing tips (Sometimes one or both being tucked in) It took me a bit of time to fully inflate the kite whilst the kite is airborne on my first attempt. There was “absolutely” nothing wrong with the kite, it was me who had to learn the technique on how to inflate it. Once fully inflated, I flew it for couple hours flying it back and forth learning its flying characteristics and being easily dragged around the beach in very light winds.

With one or both wing tips tucked in, a very “careful” pull down on the brake line flattens the kite out with the kite descending at the same time. This allows air to fill the wingtips, but there is a fine balance. Too much brake results in the kite descending to fast, letting go of the brake line to quickly the kite powers up so fast, the wing tips will probably still be tucked in.
As the wingtips start to inflate you carefully ease the pressure on the brake line which then causes the kite to ascend. I usually perform this task near the edge of window depending on the wind strength. It will probably take several attempts to get the kite fully inflated.

As time goes go by it gets easier and have noticed the kite inflates faster now. I guess the fabric and bridles have “bedded in” and I am mastering the technique. These kites do need to be managed and respected. They need to be carefully packed away with the lines either left connected to the bar or if you remove the lines make sure you secure the bridle pigtails in the velcro tags on the trailing edge.

The bridles can tangle easily, in which untangling can take time. However the more you understand the bridle configuration the easier it is.
I always wash the bar and lines in fresh water after use and check the pulleys are sand free. I have upgraded the speed system having received the free warranty replacement from Ozone last year. I now have the 12m and the 9m, they are all great kites and I’m very pleased with them.
These kites look stunning in the air and fly beautifully in my opinion.
Hope you are not put off by your experience, you have a very high aspect, high performance foil there that needs to be flown. I couldn't say how you fly them, I just fly them.


Return to “Foil Kites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron