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Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

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foilholio
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Re: Concept'air new Pulsion kite

Postby foilholio » Mon May 23, 2016 11:11 am

Your bar has me perplexed. please do make a topic.:-)

The link you provided is for the smart and not the pulsion? Are they the same kite but different sizes?

Regis-de-giens
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Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Concept'air new Pulsion kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon May 23, 2016 1:25 pm

Smart is not the same kite at all ; smart is open cell for snowkite and has a variable geometry like the FS psycho who "reproduced" this concept , with a huge huge wind range; Pulsion is a "standard" closed cell kite without variable geometry.

I think that the Pulsion is not described on the web site ( http://www.conceptair.com/fr/3/Produits.html) because it is too new and just started serial production (last month, before the prototypes were called "Aquatic") and because Benoit spend more time testing and developping :wink: .

I think the best is to contact directly Benoit Tramblay at : traction@conceptair.com. He should know I have put a report here, but you can remind him how you heard about the Pulsion if you wish ( just as communication introduction and pleasure , as I have 0 commercial interest).

The prices are changing depending on money conversion rate from Canadian US, transport costs and taxes. Here are the prices he gave me 2 month ago, without transport nor taxes :
3.69m : 849$ canadien = approx 580 Euros
6M : 1199$ canadien = approx 820 Euros
9m :1449$ canadien = approx 990 Euros
12m : 1649$ canadien = approx 1120 Euros.
12 m light cloth = approx 1849 $ canadien = 1260 Euros

I forgot to mention it exists in 3.7 m2. It is just an overview, since he can adapt the prices to material price evolution, so better contacting him

Regis-de-giens
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Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Concept'air new Pulsion kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon May 23, 2016 2:05 pm

My test conclusions :
Lets precise again : one test only, in very light wind (4-6 knots) and I weight 60kg with a big foil wing. 31m thin lines.

A-Static :
- launch and stay at zenith far earlier than s3 dlx. Noticably earlier than Elf and s4 lotus. Believe it or not , I feel it was similar as my souvenir of peak 9m v1.
- stable even at window extremity , up to approx 45 degree azimuth in this marginal breeze
- very agile compared to speed,
- loops were shorter hence easier
- good power when crossing the window (i made 5-6 meters slides 6 and 50 cm jumps, which decided ne to try on the water)
-Very easy inflation : launch without pre-inflation and almost full of air when reaching the zenith
IMG_20160523_150251.jpg
B-Test with hydrofoil , same wind
-Very easy waterstart thanks to the short loop.
- when driven short, the loop provides less grunt than FS speed. Hence loop radius shall be enlarged to increase power in very low wind (as usual ...)
- one thing i loved : when depowered, Pulsion tends to go upward to the zénith
- kite flight ability and agility is not much influenced by power/depower
- no unvoluntary backstall. I need less than 4 knots next time : -)
- traction direction is not as further as race and maybe FS speed at first sight), hence some traction goes into the legs and speed is limited (but big foil wing and extreme low wind so i cannot compare). I suppose its performance and speed is like a former speed4 dlx or unity

foilholio
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Re: Concept'air new Pulsion kite

Postby foilholio » Mon May 23, 2016 2:48 pm

So Smart had the variable geometry/projected area/arc before the pyscho4? The wind range gained from it truly is incredible.

Tending to go upward to zenith is called Autozenith and something until recently only Peterlynn ARCs could do, a few other foils can like the flysurfer unity and Pansh A15, but not very strong like an ARC. Sounds like every one is working it out. Cool because I really miss it from my kites.

The kite is sounding really good. What do you attribute just to the incredible low weight?

corbett
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Re: Concept'air new Pulsion kite

Postby corbett » Mon May 23, 2016 2:56 pm

The word "traction" is a trademark of Concept air kites?

"Welcome to the world of TRACTIONtm kites.

With a TRACTIONtm kite you will literally be able to hold your dreams in your hands. Your TRACTIONtm kite will open new horizon for you. Whatever use you are going to have for your TRACTIONtm, we know it will give you full satisfaction.

In this users guide, you will find answers to many of your questions. It is important to read this guide and to be familiar with all the details concerning the maintenance and proper handling of your TRACTIONtm kite."

Flyfish
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Re: Concept'air new Pulsion kite

Postby Flyfish » Mon May 23, 2016 4:06 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:My test conclusions :

- kite flight ability and agility is not much influenced by power/depower
Are you saying that depowered turning is unaffected?

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jakemoore
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Re: Concept'air new Pulsion kite

Postby jakemoore » Mon May 23, 2016 4:27 pm

Does the Pulsion also have variable geometry?

foilholio
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Re: Concept'air new Pulsion kite

Postby foilholio » Mon May 23, 2016 4:44 pm

no

Regis-de-giens
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Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Concept'air new Pulsion kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon May 23, 2016 4:50 pm

Depower turning is a bit affected, but far less that what I experienced on other foil kites (Aurora, speed 2 , 2.5 , 3, 4 lotus, peak, homemade single skin); I 've nerver riden a psycho nor smart which were told to turn right when sheeted out.
I also found that contrary to the speed, in light winds, it flies well even sheeted-in, and when you sheet-out, it does not accelerate so much like the speed, so power generation is more due to sheeting-in than sheeting-out , a bit like a LEI (but not up to that level of course, just for explanation). It changes a bit the technique for light wind water start where I had the habit to fully depower the foil kite at the first phase of waterstart, let the kite accelerate before sheeting-in. With the Pulsion you can sheet-in a bit more from start, so starting getting-up sooner, but traction does not increase a lot during the waterstart.

Regarding Autozenith : it is not a real Autozenith like Peter lynn's Arc foils. If you let the bar go from the zenith, it will slowly go down up to the ground if you let it go (like Speed, Aurora, ect ...) BUT let me detail my feeling; with the Speed2 15m (or speed3 15m dlx similarly) in foil, I often had to quite fully sheet-out to avoid over-power during the ride in foil. But as soon as you sheet-out, the FS Speed had a tendancy to raise down its Leading Edge to the water. This was absolutely uncomfortable because:
- the kite accelerate with its self-weight acceleration, while you want less power at that moment
- the kite has more power because lowered in the wind window
- I had to pull on the upper pre-line to avoid crashing the kite, while it was very difficult to change its direction fully sheeted-out ... Hence I had to either take a rear pre-line (by crossing the arms :o ) or sheet-in a bit to gain turning response ( while I still wanted to get less power...)
... it was non-sense and uncofortable ads you can imagine.

In opposition, the Leading Edge of the Pulsion tends to go upward to the zenith when you depower, which automatically reduces power due to self-weight and upper in the window (which is in general what you are looking for when sheeting-out) . Off course if you prefer to keep a constant azimuth, this can be counterbalanced by slightly pulling a bit the down rear line, very easily, to keep same direction (you are not over power in this situation, hence no worry). So in a nutshell, it is a useful feature when you encounter a gust or want to decrease your speed. I do not know what explains this original upward tendancy, and if it is "on purpose" or not, but i loved that.

@ Corbett : I do not get your point, you reached my english skills limits ; don't want to raise any polemic, but just can report you that Concept'air is designing kites for decades (and , from what I know, Benoit designed the first closed-cell-foil-kite ever for marine application)

@ Foilholio: Yes, Smart open cell kite is an concept that was designed before the FS psycho, you can find some topics reporting this on canadian forums.

For the story, my initial "attraction" to the Pulsion was both the very light cloth , the limited AR for better agility (snowkite application in moutnains for me), and the idea that it could have the variable geometry; but in fact and after several prototypes of "smart marine", variable geometry was finally not Benoit's choice for Hydrofoil. My opinion is that it kills the performance (L/D ratio) when sheeted-out with variable geometry, which is a significant drawback on a hydrofoil as it will sit deeper in the wind window with uncomfortable pressure on your legs and poor speed/upwind ability. Smart marine seemed to be great for waves however.

foilholio
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Re: Concept'air new Pulsion kite

Postby foilholio » Mon May 23, 2016 7:14 pm

I don't think variable geometry will ever have the max L/D. The kites sew shape and flying shape are never going to be perfect for it.

It sounds like auto zenith. The effect can be very weak. I remember Peterlynn talking about 2 types, one when the kite is static and another when it flies faster.

Just ignore Corbett;-) he's in it for the lulz.


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