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Tuning help Sonic 11m

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Re: Tuning help Sonic 11m

Postby Adventure Logs » Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:54 pm

I plan on doing the long bridle test, measuring out every bridle line. Since the kite was doing this from the beginning, I don't think it's a shrunk/stretched line, but we shall see. I'll post my results here.

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Re: Tuning help Sonic 11m

Postby foilholio » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:09 am

Instead of measuring everyone,first try measuring just one cord of ABCZ and then adjust the mixer to correct for the difference. You could do this at the center or the tip or maybe do both and average the difference, the tip is probably more applicable as that is where the problem is.

Here is one way to do it. I added up the lengths of each bridle from the top of mixer in the line plan at the tip. All lengths are in mm they are A 3507, B 3536, C3609, Z3846. With the mixer even in order they should be longer than A by B 29, C102, Z339. So level the mixer and secure it to something, then measure the differences of BCZ to A, then alter the mixer to correct them to match B 29, C102, Z339. If you want to work it out with AZ matching at the kite. They should be B -55.75 and C -67.5. To get that I reduce Z by 339 to 0, and C for half and B for one quarter.

You may want to check my figures as I just did them quickly.

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Re: Tuning help Sonic 11m

Postby foilholio » Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:40 am

Ok I did a long mixer test.

For example lets say the differences at the tip are A0 B-50 C-80 Z-100. Now measure on the kite with the mixer even and you get A0 B-70 C-120 Z-140. Minus the Z-100 from the measured Z-140, you get -40, take 1/2 that from C and a 1/4 from B. So your measurements become A0 B-60 C-100 Z-100. Then you know B needs to be lengthened +10 and C +20. If shortening or lengthening B throws out your depower point you will need to correct that with a Z mod.

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Re: Tuning help Sonic 11m

Postby Adventure Logs » Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:46 pm

Got like 5 minutes before it started to pour on me but it seems like my problem isn't a wrongly adjusted bridle. Looks like both sides and set for more stable with B/C shorter than A/Z. So before I mess with the bridle I'm going to check my bar/lines and bridle. I want to see if this is actually a bridle problem or what.

To make sure, to check the bar line lengths I trim for full power and sheet fully in and the lines should be equal at the end correct? I had FS USA build me a special bar and wasn't new when sent to me so it might be that. I was told it was tuned before hand though.

If no bridle/bar problems, my first adjustment will be to shorten B by 1.5 cm.

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Re: Tuning help Sonic 11m

Postby foilholio » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:13 am

That is not a huge adjustment though. Try shorten just B until the problem is gone, then bring C in. But shortening C on the FS mixer shortens B at the same time so every time you adjust C you will need to readjust B... pain in the arse and another reason I don't like the FS mixer, it makes fine tuning B and C hard like that.

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Re: Tuning help Sonic 11m

Postby Adventure Logs » Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:04 am

I shortened just B by another 1cm and got about 20 minutes on the kite and success. More stable, doesn't tip tuck on every jump and more enjoyable. I need to get more time on the water to see if I'm 100% sure she's fixed but it's a hell of a lot better than it's ever been. Couple questions:

How will I know if I shortened B too much?
Any benefit in shortening C as well? I know that messing with C also changes B but should I be shortening C at the same time?

Cheers.

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Re: Tuning help Sonic 11m

Postby windrider1 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:03 pm

This is how my both sonics came the 9m and 11m with A and Z a little longer than B and C . the kite flies perfectly that way and I didnt have any problems. I think the idea that all lines must line up is not the case anymore and may be was true for only some models but not the sonics. I did have problems on a 12m speed but one of the problems was my bar and lines were out of whack. do a detailed check of your bar lines and lengths.

logsdon wrote:Got like 5 minutes before it started to pour on me but it seems like my problem isn't a wrongly adjusted bridle. Looks like both sides and set for more stable with B/C shorter than A/Z. So before I mess with the bridle I'm going to check my bar/lines and bridle. I want to see if this is actually a bridle problem or what.

To make sure, to check the bar line lengths I trim for full power and sheet fully in and the lines should be equal at the end correct? I had FS USA build me a special bar and wasn't new when sent to me so it might be that. I was told it was tuned before hand though.

If no bridle/bar problems, my first adjustment will be to shorten B by 1.5 cm.

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Re: Tuning help Sonic 11m

Postby windrider1 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:05 pm

windrider1 wrote:This is how my both sonics came the 9m and 11m with A and Z a little longer than B and C . the kite flies perfectly that way and I didnt have any problems. I think the idea that all lines must line up is true for only some models but not the sonics. I did have problems on a 12m speed but one of the problems was my bar and lines were out of whack. do a detailed check of your bar lines and lengths.

logsdon wrote:Got like 5 minutes before it started to pour on me but it seems like my problem isn't a wrongly adjusted bridle. Looks like both sides and set for more stable with B/C shorter than A/Z. So before I mess with the bridle I'm going to check my bar/lines and bridle. I want to see if this is actually a bridle problem or what.

To make sure, to check the bar line lengths I trim for full power and sheet fully in and the lines should be equal at the end correct? I had FS USA build me a special bar and wasn't new when sent to me so it might be that. I was told it was tuned before hand though.

If no bridle/bar problems, my first adjustment will be to shorten B by 1.5 cm.

Image
Image

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Re: Tuning help Sonic 11m

Postby foilholio » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:15 am

logsdon wrote:How will I know if I shortened B too much?
The main problem with shortening B is not only does it change the profile of the kite or when the different bridles engage etc, it also limits the depower more. See viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2392205 :-) (I knew I made that post for a reason, so I could link it lots LOL). It may be that limiting the depower helps fix the problem or it is just that the profile was wrong, i.e. not enough B was being pulled or too much C and or Z was. You can look at changing the profile in different ways like pull one loosen the other or the reverse etc. I am not super experienced with the sonic, maybe it does use B when depowered or gives it lots of slack, but simply observing it's tension when you depower you can see if it is limiting. If you observed it when it was new like I did on my A15 I saw the the kite was designed to fly off A at full depower, most flysurfers are like this now and so B should go slack, but again I don't know the sonic that well.
logsdon wrote: Any benefit in shortening C as well? I know that messing with C also changes B but should I be shortening C at the same time?
Not necessarily, although that is flysurfers advice to change both I don't agree 100%. Change B for 1 and C for 2 is the same as changing Z for 4. Z is a big influence on stability but so is B and C too. Having them all in perfect balance should have the best performance but sometimes other things can be a bit better for your riding or wind range. Pulling C in more should make the kite more stable and have less lift i.e. more stally. But I think it can actually make the kite less stable in some ways. Where the opposite of lengthen it can have the benefit of making the kite more stable but have more lift! I think it comes down to how each is tensioned. They each come down in an order B first for a long time then C and then finally Z. Well if you delay C some then B gets tensioned longer solely which would have a bigger effect on stability. C coming in later then allows Z to camber more giving more lift. Basically you get a more flat wing with a kink at the end.

You can play with C but as said it changes B. I would reset B every time you change C so you can isolate one from the other. You may get more or less desirable qualities from lengthening or shortening C. You could just move it a cm here or there before each session to get a feel if you like it one way or another. I would avoid changing both as they each have different effects, so reset B if you change C. You can do the same to B i.e. change it before a session. If it is not how you like it land and change it back. If you are bored continue changing or leave it to another day. Don't stress with it you cant break anything, just make small changes or big ones if you feel bold :-) remember though those pulleys lines are going to shrink so you will need a little adjustment from time to time, so best you get a handle if the kites is doing this, changing this fixes that etc. Also don't forget to pull those adjustment loops tight after each adjustment as they can move 1cm or more just tightening, you want to be certain of what you are changing.

windrider1 wrote:This is how my both sonics came the 9m and 11m with A and Z a little longer than B and C . the kite flies perfectly that way and I didnt have any problems. I think the idea that all lines must line up is not the case anymore and may be was true for only some models but not the sonics. I did have problems on a 12m speed but one of the problems was my bar and lines were out of whack. do a detailed check of your bar lines and lengths.
It was meant that new it was level and leveling the mixer corrected for pulley line shrink which it sort of does ,well half way does viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2392205. The problem is the bridles at the kite go out of alignment and the mixer needs to be not level to correct this. I could guess that the sonic is coming with an uneven mixer because of poor quality control which is likely, or that the mixer is set to compensate for bridles that are not the correct lengths but when upon aging and realigning the mixer become more correct, somewhat unlikely but sounds cool :-)


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