Just trust me disconnecting is only going to make it 10X harder.
If you just have crossed bridles, yes you could disconnect to fix that. But still you can pass the bar (and not the kite) through the bridles to sort it out. Never disconnect your lines if you have a birds nest. I can't emphasize enough how important the connected lines are, they literally show you the way to undo the mess. If you loosen the mess enough and can pull the lines out and the tangle is resolved. Literally things that take others hours to do(who disconnect) I can do in minutes or less!
foilholio wrote:Just trust me disconnecting is only going to make it 10X harder.
Exactly - like stated the line-bridle system is closed system. There are no knots as such there is only loops. So bridle tangle by making loops. Just take loop out from other outer loop one by one and eventually you get lines free. If kite has dived through bridle just make the reverse and first take bridle to same side of kite.
If I was evil and Ozone had break-fuses at kite end I'd instruct you to disconnect all break-fuses from bridle Which is the no-no thing to do.
I just do not understand the problem with detaching flying lines to deal with tangle and I never will. This is the way a bad tangle has been dealt with for many years as far as I'm aware and how you end up taking apart a speed system to deal with a tangle is beyond me. I've never heard of that before.
Can't you see the problem in a tangle?
You wouldn't want to look behind my TV cabinet I bet
I had a similar disaster on one of my first self rescues with my chrono. Now I wrap the entire bridle system onto the bar as much as possible and roll the two wingtips towards the center of the kite. No problems anymore.
My worst tangle though took hours to untangle. I was close to beach so didn't roll up lines all the way and just swam the whole thing in through the shore break. It was horrible. I wound up removing the lines eventually because they were woven in with the bridle lines. Removing the lines seemed to help in that case. Usually I wouldn't remove the lines.
I have had some pretty bad tangles with foil kites, longest I have ever untangled though is about 20mins and that was because I was inexperienced. The longest tangle I have ever undone was with inflatable lines I took off the kite which took maybe 1-2hours. If I knew what I knew now I could have left them on the kite and it would have been 2 to 5mins tops ! serious!
Packing up I used to wrap the bridles onto the bar as a matter of course, and it is still the quickest and easiest way to handle the kites, but recently I have started stopping at or near the mixer and running the bridles back through the kite to the trailing edge. The reason i do this is I find after a few years of wrapping the sleeved bridles onto the bar and tying them off they start to get lots of kinks in them, I don't think it is good for them. If you don't have sleeved bridles, like most race kites, I don't think it would be a problem. I think I hate sleeved lines. they also shrink more because of the cover.
My advice, pay someone experienced to do it and watch and learn. In the beginning it use to take me forever to untangle a Speed but now it's no sweat. As you get experience with the kite, the bridle will make more sense and untangling is easy. Also without knowing the bridle well, I would keep the lines on.
i get tangles in my foil bridles all the time. no problem to untangle, even without that bar attached. The reason that I detach my bar is that I have 3 control bars with lengths and I need to keep swapping bars for the different wind gradients also some small launches can't take my 40 meter line set. Anyway, just memorize how the bridle works then you always know where all the lines go. It's actually easier untangling a bridle than regular kite lines. Regular kite lines get into terrible knots, at most for a bridle you just pass the ends through the bridle a few times it doesn't knot up that bad. I suppose if you have no idea how your bridle works it might be a problem.
"The longest tangle I have ever undone was with inflatable lines I took off the kite which took maybe 1-2hours."
so true. I have had line sets on my inflated kites that have taken me days to put back together when the wind died and I had to swim back, got them completely knotted up and coated in 100 pounds of Spirogyra algae.
logsdon wrote:My advice, pay someone experienced to do it and watch and learn. In the beginning it use to take me forever to untangle a Speed but now it's no sweat. As you get experience with the kite, the bridle will make more sense and untangling is easy. Also without knowing the bridle well, I would keep the lines on.
Would v much like to, but can't think of anyone experienced (that would do it, as opposed to "having a go".
My 10 year old daughter is pretty good at cats cradles and tried with me - sadly she gave up after 10 mins !
Three ways to handle this: Pass the bar through the loop. Pass the kite through the loop. Detach the bar. IMO detaching the bar is the easiest way to do it on a windy beach.
If the bridle is tangled e.g. from flogging in a landing its quite possible there is a bridle wrap as well. If you detach the bar, you can just follow the A bridles out to the end of the mixer, then the Z bridle out to the end of the mixer and the whole thing is sorted.
Also, pulling pulleys through the birds nest can be difficult. Its like the difference between untangling sleeved kite lines vs kite lines with splices only, only the mixer pulleys are 100x worse. Therefore I would also consider disconnecting the mixer if it was really bad and I have done that before. Obviously you need to know how to put the mixer back together if you contemplate this.
Finally, much like detangling kite lines, if you finish one group of bridles and pull it out of the nest, each successive group becomes more simple. So I like to follow one group to its end. I usually start with the A, because I would lay it most downwind and out of the way for example if the kite was laid out on the beach with sand on the TE.