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Pansh Genesis and some tuning

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foilholio
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Pansh Genesis and some tuning

Postby foilholio » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:00 pm

Quite along time ago I got a Genesis. Expecting something better than the Adam, and more refined than the Aurora, it was neither :-(. In shape and flight it promised something similar to the pulse2. Well it was somewhat like it, but there were problems. Well first it had a slight tendency to one side, easy enough to fix and most foils have this problem, a few pleats and that was that. The second problem, it had absolutely no tension on Z in flight, the bridle itself was a bit weird looking drooping in the sky. The result of no Z is no power and no turning :-/ not too good. Well the fix would seem obvious? shorten Z. Well the third problem, a little bit of Z tension and the kite is suddenly very unstable, which is not too unusual but also the bridles were applying tension very strangely to the kite.

To fix it was two parts, the first was surprisingly quick and took me about 15-30mins! I saw the C bridle was already tensioned nicely so I decided to copy it. I stuck both the center Z and C attachments at the kite on a hook. I tensioned both the C and Z main on one side off this hook and tied a loop in them so they were even. I swapped the loop onto the hook so I could compare C to Z on the one side. The middle bridles were my base so they already matched. What I found was interesting to say the least. In a "normal" kite :lol: the bridle should cascade longest in the middle to shortest at the tip. Well the Z on this genesis went long short long short long etc :-/ No wonder it looked weird. I wondered then that this couldn't have possibly been designed like that??? it must be some fuck up with the wrong bridles being put in the wrong place. Jesus. Well to that I have no answer yet and may never, HAHA. So I fix it. With some cheap Chinese(we are getting a theme now :lol:) 130lb dyneema fishing line, I made extension by extension, loops with one figure eight knot like the LCLs, and just hand tuned the knot so C and Z matched. For the bridles that were too long well amazingly a simple overhand knot on the sewn ends fixed them. After doing one side of Z I untied the CZ mains and tied both Z mains together so they were even and copied the changes from left to right. It sounds really long and complicated but I never touch a measuring tape and it really did take about 15mins! The second part of this Z fix is even more interesting. I had to adjust the mixer. Well previously I had added an adjustment to C, I was playing with this and actually moved it much back to original but it still extending C about an inch. I have developed an interesting theory about B and C tension, but back to Z, I start using a figure 8 loop tied in the Z mains to shorten them, 1,2,3,5 finally about 6.5 inches in the loop, so the Z main is shortened about 13inches! WTF! any way the kite flys great now, stable, turns nice, buckets of pull! Impressed I think it's better than the pulse2.The kite actually kinks on the rear like with a WAC but no WAC is used. Well I thought what the hell I'll take another 6 inches out of the Z main, ok ok now it's unstable like before HAHA, I take that adjustment out :-).

Now my theory about B and C. Well a while ago I tried some mixer mods that tensioned B and C evenly. What I observed is that B and C even is not very stable at all. B itself is actually very good at stabilizing the kite while not producing much power, well not as much as C or Z does. So I think what you want in a mixer setup is to tension B a lot before you touch C or Z. Basically by doing that you can then transition into a higher camber profile with Z starting to tension almost at the same time as C. You can do this while still maintaining stability in the large A/B transition state.

As to the specifics about the genesis and how I have the Z bridle shaped, well even tension seems great for producing power but not the best for turning. It's more common for foils to put more curve in Z so the tips are more tensioned and the turning better. It would be easy enough to shorten the tips a bit more on my genesis but I really like it like it is now. I think the way it tensions the Z bridle has more in common with some race foils. I think over tensioning the tips destabilizes them as well, making it much harder to achieve high camber states. I wonder now if I flatten some of the Z's on my other kites, fore going some turning for more performance.

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PugetSoundKiter
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Re: Pansh Genesis and some tuning

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:42 am

Nice write up on the Genesis. :thumb:
What size kite you were modifying and what are you planning to use it for?

I picked up an old Alex Aguera CR59 Course Racing board and plan to try it in really light wind. I was wondering what Pansh kite might be good to get for the lightest winds possible. Wind will be too light to re-launch a LEI off the water, so might as well use a foil kite, maybe even an open cell. I’m not interested in apparent wind/speed as much as keeping the kite in the air and having enough pull to get moving through big swings on long 30-40m lines. So I assume the A15 might be easier to keep in the air than the higher AR Aurora2. The open cell Blaze3 is about the same AR as the A15, is a depower kite, flown on a bar, comes in an 15m and is a third of the price. The Genesis is even a lower AR, higher price and 12m is the biggest size.
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PanshKite2.jpg

foilholio
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Re: Pansh Genesis and some tuning

Postby foilholio » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:26 am

The Genesis is a 6m. It is quite light for it's size. I will probably give it a go or two on water again now I fixed it, but I love the Pyscho4-6 much more even though it is heavier but the wind I use it in it doesn't matter. The Genesis was so cheap and I am not quite sure why I bought it :-) Because it was cheap and I didn't really need it I delayed fixing it. Windriders shit spouting got me motivated, and jakemoores mention and explanation of the "long mixer test" clicked in my head a quick way to compare the bridles and then the fix became obvious, and now I wonder why I didn't do it sooner. HAHA. Well what to use it for ... it's light so it flys in little wind, cheap so I don't care if i rip it in two, it seems just about perfect for throwing on some handles and riding a skateboard around the place :-) Which is what I think I will use it for. It could also be a fun kite for playing on a sup in light wind, which the psychos are too heavy for.


Previously the kite from Pansh with the most low end was the Aurora 22m, the A15 18m is pretty close especially after I modded mine, maybe even more powerful. Now the Aurora2 is out in 22m and you could easily apply the same mods to the Auroras. Both the A15 and Aurora2 come in Ultralight version with lighter fabric and thinner bridles. The Aurora 22m Ultralight seems the obvious best low end, my only concern would be a couple more reviews about the Aurora2. A couple guys have bought them so I guess just wait. The A15 is thoroughly vetted, ultralight version is yet to be seen though. I can only imagine it would be very good, 800-900grams off the 18m would be epic.

I wouldn't use the Blaze 3 on water because it's opencell and it'll be a nightmare if you drop it. Those prices don't include the 50% off, the discount doesn't apply to the blaze3 either so it's Aurora2 -15 $389 vs $269 blaze3-15. Looking at the way they price kites, labor must be their biggest cost.

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Re: Pansh Genesis and some tuning

Postby windrider1 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:53 pm

I have a better use for that 6m genesis, glue the vents shut and use it for a doggy mattress maybe?







foilholio wrote:The Genesis is a 6m. It is quite light for it's size. I will probably give it a go or two on water again now I fixed it, but I love the Pyscho4-6 much more even though it is heavier but the wind I use it in it doesn't matter. The Genesis was so cheap and I am not quite sure why I bought it :-) Because it was cheap and I didn't really need it I delayed fixing it. Windriders shit spouting got me motivated, and jakemoores mention and explanation of the "long mixer test" clicked in my head a quick way to compare the bridles and then the fix became obvious, and now I wonder why I didn't do it sooner. HAHA. Well what to use it for ... it's light so it flys in little wind, cheap so I don't care if i rip it in two, it seems just about perfect for throwing on some handles and riding a skateboard around the place :-) Which is what I think I will use it for. It could also be a fun kite for playing on a sup in light wind, which the psychos are too heavy for.


Previously the kite from Pansh with the most low end was the Aurora 22m, the A15 18m is pretty close especially after I modded mine, maybe even more powerful. Now the Aurora2 is out in 22m and you could easily apply the same mods to the Auroras. Both the A15 and Aurora2 come in Ultralight version with lighter fabric and thinner bridles. The Aurora 22m Ultralight seems the obvious best low end, my only concern would be a couple more reviews about the Aurora2. A couple guys have bought them so I guess just wait. The A15 is thoroughly vetted, ultralight version is yet to be seen though. I can only imagine it would be very good, 800-900grams off the 18m would be epic.

I wouldn't use the Blaze 3 on water because it's opencell and it'll be a nightmare if you drop it. Those prices don't include the 50% off, the discount doesn't apply to the blaze3 either so it's Aurora2 -15 $389 vs $269 blaze3-15. Looking at the way they price kites, labor must be their biggest cost.

foilholio
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Re: Pansh Genesis and some tuning

Postby foilholio » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:47 pm

I fixed it up windrider, it has heaps of power now. It is a bit concerning that from the sounds of it you recently got your Genesis and it had a similar/same problem. Anyway it seems a much nicer kite now, pity you didn't hop on here and ask for some help with it, because I would have fixed mine up earlier to help you. I would still like to know where you got "rave" reviews for the kite, I know have asked you about 5 times with no answer. It really seems like you made that up, I have never found a particularly good review of it and most complain of the Z problem. Anyway your endless hate of me and pansh doesn't make much sense to me, although pansh doesn't do things quite to flysurfers level they do still make good kites and for the price I just can't understand why you would get so upset over what you experienced. God help you if you experience some of the real dramas life can dish up.

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Re: Pansh Genesis and some tuning

Postby corbett » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:56 am

By the way, if Pansh are doing ultralight versions now, how is the customer to know he actually has been sold an ultralight version and not the standard fabric version?

foilholio
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Re: Pansh Genesis and some tuning

Postby foilholio » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:04 am

Scales, it is meant to be 25% lighter, the weights of the A15 and Aurora are already well known. Also the bridles are thinner and spliced. I would be surprised if they tried to do a quick one on the fabric, that is really dishonest.

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Re: Pansh Genesis and some tuning

Postby windrider1 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:05 am

Well since u keep asking The good reviews were from some russian guys on YouTube and also some guy tht runs a kite school called hardwater kiting. Turns out thise Russians had some type of relationship with pansh and the guy from the school sold kites for a living so go figure the reviews are gonna be tainted .After this now im really skeptical of reviews unless it comes from your everyday experienced kiter who is no way affiliated with a kite company.

foilholio
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Re: Pansh Genesis and some tuning

Postby foilholio » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:37 pm

windrider1 wrote:Well since u keep asking The good reviews were from some russian guys on YouTube and also some guy tht runs a kite school called hardwater kiting. Turns out thise Russians had some type of relationship with pansh and the guy from the school sold kites for a living so go figure the reviews are gonna be tainted .After this now im really skeptical of reviews unless it comes from your everyday experienced kiter who is no way affiliated with a kite company.
Thanks for answering me.

Wow hardwaterkiter gave the Genesis a positive review?!? That is really shocking :o I was actually quite disappointed with it and wasn't sure if I would get another Pansh again! I was hesitant about the A15 because of that and some other reasons like I thought it might not be as good as my modified aurora for surfing, but it actually surpassed all my expectations. I have very specific requirements for a kite with regards to drift, no other discipline than surfing really needs that from a kite, and the A15 does it well. If you are just into jumping or racing the main brand high AR kites have quite a lead in that regard, though the A15 is much improved in its float over the Aurora but it's not a race kite. I would be interested to see how the Aurora 2 has improved in that regard.

Yes some russians have something going on with Pansh. They were involved in designing the A15 and I think the Blaze 3. It sounds like they know a bit about kites.

While I have largely enjoyed my Panshs I am by no means an average kiter, I obviously know something about kites and adjusting them so that would factor into my enjoyment and ability to handle any problems. I do try to explain things to the best of my knowledge and be helpful. I am sorry if I annoy you with my talk about Pansh but I think they are very good value for money, especially considering the A15 for me was basically flawless out of the bag. I could find fault in each the Adam,Aurora and obviously the Genesis, but still I like them all even the genesis now I have fixed it. I still ride flysurfers and would consider buying more if they released a kite I would like, even then there is a risk I wouldn't like it, I find you really cant be certain about a kite till you ride it a bit. Buying an expensive flysurfer to find it is not what I really want would be more devastating than a pansh that won't fly right.

Anyway keep an open mind, listen, learn and relax :-) We just do this for fun it shouldn't be a job!


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