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Elf Joker 6 9m, my first foil kite

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WH Lithuania
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Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:45 pm
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Local Beach: Melnragė, Vievis
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Style: wave, hydrofoil
Gear: 5,5m and 8m BWS Aeneema. Ozone hyperlink 12m. Takuma V100. BWS Mulcoy Pro 6'0.

Re: Elf Joker 6 9m, my first foil kite

Postby WH Lithuania » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:25 pm

foilholio wrote:It over flys because it is high performance. Thin airfoil, higher camber, inertia will all make it want to overfly. Use some backstall to control it. You can also loosen Z to make it easier to fly if you want.
Is there some good source for foil kites tuning? I have no idea what is Z.

Also, back and front lines on each tip looked extremely close when in air. I almost thought that I mixed lines.

windmlv
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Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:31 pm
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Local Beach: Gordon's beach, LaVentana, Baja
Gear: Aguera 160, Spotz2, 9m Elf Joker 6, 11m Elf Joker 5, 13m Elf Joker 7
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Location: Victoria, Canada/Baja

Re: Elf Joker 6 9m, my first foil kite

Postby windmlv » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:47 am

Can understand your frustration completely. For me it is a bit like learning to fly a kite all over again.
I have drilled it into my head to keep back line tension. There are no struts or main bladder to hold its shape like the tube kites.
I also have about 12.5 cm of oversheeting on my line set up.
This makes it easy to oversheet and keep the kite from overflying.
But... the performance is worth the learning process.
Only have the 9m but thinking maybe 11m or the 6m.
martin

WH Lithuania
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Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:45 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: Melnragė, Vievis
Favorite Beaches: Melnragė
Style: wave, hydrofoil
Gear: 5,5m and 8m BWS Aeneema. Ozone hyperlink 12m. Takuma V100. BWS Mulcoy Pro 6'0.

Re: Elf Joker 6 9m, my first foil kite

Postby WH Lithuania » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:11 am

Martin, definitely. Every year new frustration. Last year it was hydrofoil, this year it's race foil kites. Such as frustrating sport :D

I'll try to put extra extensions 10-15cm to oversheet it. Looks like it doesn't pull insanely when sits a bit deeper in the window, so should not me drag over beach.

My only concern is that my spot at the lake is pretty gusty continental wind. My wave inflatable simply drifts after a gust, I'm not sure that it will be possible to handle such gusts with race foil.

Mossy 757
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Gear: Delta Hydrofoil and board. Cabrinha Velocity 9m, Flysurfer Sonic2 11m, Elf Joker-7 15m

Re: Elf Joker 6 9m, my first foil kite

Postby Mossy 757 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:35 pm

WH Lithuania wrote: I have no idea what is Z.
Most foil kites, including the Joker, have 4 rows of bridle attachments to the canopy. The row closest to the leading edge is A, then B, C, and instead of D most companies call the last row Z. Z applies the most tension to the trailing edge and is usually in a 1:1 ratio with A in terms of how the pulley systems work.

When Z is tight, it can affect performance by increasing lift at slower speeds, but the price you pay is often a loss of collapse stability and less upwind angle. Loosening Z might take some grunt out of the kite but will make it ligher bar pressure and a bit easier to fly.

The Joker usually comes with 3 knots on the Z line so you can adjust. Try the middle or the loosest knot if not already there. If you're on the loosest, you can tie a new knot further up to add some slack to Z, just make sure you get the left and right side mostly the same so it flies straight.

Z can also be tricky because it does not carry a ton of load while riding, so it's prone to line shrink, so even if you're on the loosest Z setting, it might be tighter than it was on the kite's birthday, so if it's a used kite I'd give it a double check as it may be a bit shrunken and thus the source of your troubles.

foilholio
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Re: Elf Joker 6 9m, my first foil kite

Postby foilholio » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:06 pm

+1 what mossy said.

WH Lithuania
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Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:45 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: Melnragė, Vievis
Favorite Beaches: Melnragė
Style: wave, hydrofoil
Gear: 5,5m and 8m BWS Aeneema. Ozone hyperlink 12m. Takuma V100. BWS Mulcoy Pro 6'0.

Re: Elf Joker 6 9m, my first foil kite

Postby WH Lithuania » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:16 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:
WH Lithuania wrote: I have no idea what is Z.
Most foil kites, including the Joker, have 4 rows of bridle attachments to the canopy. The row closest to the leading edge is A, then B, C, and instead of D most companies call the last row Z. Z applies the most tension to the trailing edge and is usually in a 1:1 ratio with A in terms of how the pulley systems work.

When Z is tight, it can affect performance by increasing lift at slower speeds, but the price you pay is often a loss of collapse stability and less upwind angle. Loosening Z might take some grunt out of the kite but will make it ligher bar pressure and a bit easier to fly.

The Joker usually comes with 3 knots on the Z line so you can adjust. Try the middle or the loosest knot if not already there. If you're on the loosest, you can tie a new knot further up to add some slack to Z, just make sure you get the left and right side mostly the same so it flies straight.

Z can also be tricky because it does not carry a ton of load while riding, so it's prone to line shrink, so even if you're on the loosest Z setting, it might be tighter than it was on the kite's birthday, so if it's a used kite I'd give it a double check as it may be a bit shrunken and thus the source of your troubles.
Thanks Mossy. That's brand new kite, so should not be problems with lines shrinking. I remember there were some knots adjustment on the speed system. I need to check knots for line directly attached to Z bridle.

Mossy 757
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Gear: Delta Hydrofoil and board. Cabrinha Velocity 9m, Flysurfer Sonic2 11m, Elf Joker-7 15m

Re: Elf Joker 6 9m, my first foil kite

Postby Mossy 757 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:36 pm

WH Lithuania wrote:
Mossy 757 wrote: Thanks Mossy. That's brand new kite, so should not be problems with lines shrinking. I remember there were some knots adjustment on the speed system. I need to check knots for line directly attached to Z bridle.
You're welcome! I have a friend with a Joker7 11m and he says his is magic, and he's flown every race foil out there besides the R1V12. I think he said he has his on the loosest Z knot.

Since I posted my response above, I asked another buddy who also got a 15m Joker 7 recently and he said his Z only has 2 knots whereas mine has 3...so seems like there's a little bit of "uniqueness" to Elf's latest race kite :roll:

I'm going to try to get out this afternoon and fly my new 15m J7 and see how it performs, if I experience any similar problems with instability I'll report back and let you know what I'm doing to try to fix it so you can copy me.

windmlv
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Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:31 pm
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Local Beach: Gordon's beach, LaVentana, Baja
Gear: Aguera 160, Spotz2, 9m Elf Joker 6, 11m Elf Joker 5, 13m Elf Joker 7
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Victoria, Canada/Baja

Re: Elf Joker 6 9m, my first foil kite

Postby windmlv » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:52 pm

Thanks mossy 757 for the bridle explanation. A very concise, simple explanation for us that like simple!
The Elf Joker 7 also comes in a 6m. Any thoughts on such a small foil kite? Thanks, martin

Mossy 757
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Posts: 1244
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:10 pm
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Local Beach: First Landing State Park, Virginia Beach Oceanfront
Style: Kitefoil
Gear: Delta Hydrofoil and board. Cabrinha Velocity 9m, Flysurfer Sonic2 11m, Elf Joker-7 15m

Re: Elf Joker 6 9m, my first foil kite

Postby Mossy 757 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:30 pm

windmlv wrote:Any thoughts on such a small foil kite?
I would only recommend the sub-9m foil kites to racers. At the wind strength you'd ride a 6m in, I think you're going to be happier/safer on an inflatable.

The advantage they offer in speed and point compared to an inflatable is less noticeable in the smallest sizes, and for what it's worth I can ride an 11m Sonic up to about 18kts sustained gusting above, so I'd only take a 6m if it was approaching 30.

That being said, it's their lightest kite; with the apparent-wind generating potential, it might be usable for free ride at a much lower wind level because it can likely hang in the sky in almost nothing. I've ridden underpowered on a 6m before and don't care to repeat the experience, so I wouldn't use it for that, but someone might.

I'd also speculate that foil kite designers don't spend a huge amount of time perfecting their smallest kites because they're rarely used in races. Most races take place on 9m and larger, more often on 15m and 18m, so those are the kites with the most hours on the water being tested and refined.

WH Lithuania
Medium Poster
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:45 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: Melnragė, Vievis
Favorite Beaches: Melnragė
Style: wave, hydrofoil
Gear: 5,5m and 8m BWS Aeneema. Ozone hyperlink 12m. Takuma V100. BWS Mulcoy Pro 6'0.

Re: Elf Joker 6 9m, my first foil kite

Postby WH Lithuania » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:01 pm

1471888649862-1607185299.jpg
Interesting - looks like Z connection line doesn't have any adjustment knots. It only has about 30cm tail. Where should I put knot? At the end of line?

There are few knots in the center of picture. What can I achieve by adjusting it?


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