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Pansh Aurora2 19m vs A15 18m2

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EricSanders
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Gear: Blade Trigger 7.0
LF NRG 10.0
Best Kahuna 13.5
Blade Fat Lady 17.0
Royal Rush 19.0
Pansh Aurora2 22m
Spleen door 164
OceanRodeo Mako King
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Location: Brighton, Michigan

Re: Pansh Aurora2 19m vs A15 18m2

Postby EricSanders » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:31 am

I had my 22m Aurora2 out for about five hours total this weekend. The wind started out a 9mph, then dropped to probably 6, and later bumped back up to 17. I am by no means a seasoned rider and the kite didn't have any odd behavior what so ever. I dropped the kite four times total, (just starting to learn to get some air), and was able to easily relaunch. One of those times was when the wind started dropping and we started to see lots of holes in the wind. I had the kite too far forward and it collapsed on me in one of the holes. I thought I was in for a self rescue, but I was able to get the wind to catch a wing tip and it nicely opened up for me.
Anyway, I don't feel like I got screwed at all. For the price of a FlySurfer of comparable size, I can probably get three or four Aurora 2's.

foilholio
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 19m vs A15 18m2

Postby foilholio » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:52 am

Glad you are enjoying the kite Eric.

Ignore that not so expert.


He really is an idiot.



A mo.ron wrote:Well, FS used similar rings years ago :roll: Rolling a line through them lead horrible shrinking, 10-15cm was easily possible. "Line-shrinker" could be the name for that part? Later FS improved their bridles and didn't use any more that kind of lines/rings.

For me using that line/ring tells again that the design of the bridle is not good. Like designer had thought: "Hmm, this wingtip line should be pulled 1:2, but my bridle configuration does not support it very well... I don't care to make it better, because at worst case I would have to start the kite all over again... Lets put good old steel ring to the kite and then line goes through it - this is so cheap kite anyway it will do!"
OMG the idiocy. I am not going to even bother.

Regis-de-giens
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Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 19m vs A15 18m2

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:30 am

We are a bit out-of-topic, but ... my two speed 2SA and DLX had the same kind of rings and flyies wonderfully during years and years ; Moreover as far as I know, diablo built its turbo system based on a simple ring as well... tension on Z is very low which helps adopting this solution in my opinion.

ok, back to topic on the a15 va Aurora comparison (not bashing :-? ). Anyone compared them back-to-back for their zenith ability in low wind ? Foilholio, you have both a15 and Aurora v1 in std cloth, I think. What is your opinion ?

foilholio
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 19m vs A15 18m2

Postby foilholio » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:50 am

The A15 laughs all over the standard Aurora 1 for stability. But mine is funalexed so much better than a standard aurora1, still not as good as the A15, but hard to tell exactly. I am in the middle of changing the tune on my aurora, which is almost mission impossible getting light enough wind to mess around with it. I know why funalex wanted a smaller one to alter now :lol:

Regis-de-giens
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Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 19m vs A15 18m2

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:34 pm

Are You talking about your V1 in 22m or in 15m ? I had the 22m also funalexed, it was indeed stable and in the sky with less wind than speed3 15 dlx but speed4 10m lotus or speed2 Silver arrow was even better on this feature. Not sure to understand your last sentence, since Funalex did its modification on a 12m Aurora.
So in term of minimum regular wind to fly at the zenith , you would say a15 = Aurora mod funalex ?

kitexpert
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 19m vs A15 18m2

Postby kitexpert » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:35 pm

Hah, foilholio, what do you expect :lol:

If you can buy a kite at a fraction of the cost of the brand kite, of course it has some flaws. It makes no sense to get angry if I point out some suspicious parts or poor design in a product like that.

If you are buying a Lada you won't get a Mercedes or BMW, isn't that clear? Lada is not worth Mercedes, not by design nor quality, only a fool claims so.

I didn't think you would understand what I meant about the motivations why that kind of detail is in that kite. You are too ignorant about foil kite design, taking lighter fabric or wishing help from "hot air" is just not quite enough :)

kitexpert
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 19m vs A15 18m2

Postby kitexpert » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:10 pm

EricSanders wrote: I had the kite too far forward and it collapsed on me in one of the holes.
Glad your kite recovered eventually. However it is not a very good sign if that big and that conservative AR kite trys to fly over and collapse. If kite is not perfectly stable then kiter must be more alert. And there is also a possibility to start to tweak the mixer - I'm sure foilholio is keen to give his clear advice :D
Regis-de-giens wrote:my two speed 2SA and DLX had the same kind of rings and flyies wonderfully during years and years
Good for you. I have seen other kind of incidents, more than once. I think you Regis are so light weight person you don't stress kites/bridles very much. When kiter weighs 220-250lbs and rides hard, situation is different. Lines still shrink. Rolling through pulleys and even worse through steel rings is unfortunate effective in shrinking the lines.

Wingtip line has additional weaknesses: 1)line is very long 2)line is quite thin. It is a poor design which FS was smart enough to ditch years ago.

Diablo line is much shorter and it works only with the last part of the sheeting range. Most of the time it hangs free and does not roll itself (with tension) through the ring/pulley.

Regis-de-giens
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Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 19m vs A15 18m2

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:09 pm

kitexpert wrote: Diablo line is much shorter and it works only with the last part of the sheeting range. Most of the time it hangs free and does not roll itself (with tension) through the ring/pulley.
That is true.

foilholio
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 19m vs A15 18m2

Postby foilholio » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:31 am

Diablo lines like ring lines is going to need adjustment like everything else on a foil. To just bag something because it has been used before and now most companies don't use it is just stupid. It's just another tool to be used or not used, I think you will find there is limitations to the tip shape that not using rings imposes. Flysurfer went to very square tips to get rid of the rings, I remember Armin talking about it. Most of the problems of ring lines could be solved with different materials and slightly different design.

Yet more from the not so expert who thinks he knows everything about kite design :roll: A true idiot.

Stick your mercedes up your arse.

foilholio
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 19m vs A15 18m2

Postby foilholio » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:54 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:Are You talking about your V1 in 22m or in 15m ? I had the 22m also funalexed, it was indeed stable and in the sky with less wind than speed3 15 dlx but speed4 10m lotus or speed2 Silver arrow was even better on this feature. Not sure to understand your last sentence, since Funalex did its modification on a 12m Aurora.
So in term of minimum regular wind to fly at the zenith , you would say a15 = Aurora mod funalex ?
Mine is 22m, funalexed, um that is how I first met you( well sort of :lol: :-) ) Yes Funalex chose the 12m because it has less pull in more wind, so easier to manage when you are flying , landing, adjusting, flying , landing, adjusting, flying , landing, adjusting,etc He actually said much that when he was asking someone to send him an Aurora to alter.

Sorry my english can be a bit tricky. The Aurora1-22m original is a lot less stable than the A15 18m. The funalexed Aurora1-22m is nearly as stable as the A15, but I can't back to back them as I have changed my Aurora further now and am still changing it and my A15 is changed as well. There is not a huge difference in the stability between the funalexed 22m aurora and 18m a15. I think I would prefer the Aurora2-22m Ultralight and A15-15m Ultralight and not have the 18m. Ultralight would make the 22m much more usable for me. The 18 is a great kite but for me not needed between a 22 and 15, nor is a 12 needed between 10 and 15. 12 and 18 would work, 10 and 18 almost does.


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