## How do foil kites sizes compare to inflatable kites?

For all foil kite riders

foilholio
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### Re: How do foil kites sizes compare to inflatable kites?

PullStrings wrote:
foilholio wrote: People can ride in 4 knots or less.
Oh and that power is closer to 8 times more rather than 4 ....(when you compare the power of 8 knots of wind to 4 knots of wind).
It is a great accomplishment riding in 4 knots or less .
You're as dumb as a bag of hammers
8kn divided by 4kn = 2.............the square of 2......2 times 2 = 4.......so 4 times stronger....not closer to 8 times

Here's an example for your four nuts brain.....how much stronger is a hurricane wind of 75 mph compared to a 25 mph wind
75 mph divided by 25 mph = 3......the square of 3.....3 times 3 = 9......so 9 times stronger

You would get beat up in the parking lot talking that 4 knots shit in South Florida
Power of the wind is cubed not squared. We discussed this recently. Not paying attention? You were there Like I imagine you "were" at school

Anyway lift and drag is squared from the airspeed, a kite can fly faster than the wind. Of note as well heating from air friction is cubed from the airspeed.

Threats of violence now Pullstrings? Trying to get banned again or just expressing your religion? Don't worry retirees don't worry me one bit so I won't go running to toby lol. Just get someone else to drive for you mmk?

Oh and 4knot riding is quite the feat, a blend of capable gear and rider. I respect anyone that can do it, like Regis.

Au Revoir

PullStrings
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### Re: How do foil kites sizes compare to inflatable kites?

foilholio wrote: Oh and 4knot riding is quite the feat, a blend of capable gear and rider. I respect anyone that can do it, like Regis.
Then it's even crazier talk coming from you... to think that someone can go in eight times less wind power then what a light 8 knot wind provides....and on a 12 sqm ram air... to boot

You were BS squared at 4 times less....but now..... at 8 times less... you're BS cubed !!!

foilholio
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### Re: How do foil kites sizes compare to inflatable kites?

It is what it is, people can ride in 4knots and less, get over it.

BTW Your cheese obsession is creepy.

grigorib
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### Re: How do foil kites sizes compare to inflatable kites?

There are few factors which can add/substract extra knots on either foil or LEI
- profile thickness. A fat kite is harder to fly.
- kite weight. A heavy kite is slower to steer, therefore harder to work.
- kite weight again. A light kite will stay up in lighter wind.
- line length as mentioned above adds "extra meters" especially on initial dive or at wind gradient (good luck measuring wind at 20+ meters altitude)
- aspect ratio. It makes huge difference to fly a wing or fly a parachute
- kite size. From certain size of a given kite model it rather suits heavier riders than giving you extra knots
- foils have higher projected area but all the bridles add up on air friction

My two nice personal experiences (190 lbs weight):
- Flysurfer Speed3 19m Deluxe vs. Flysurfer Sonic-FR 15m - same low end, same pull since 15m feels easier to fly and faster to steer.
- Flysurfer Speed4 10m Standard vs. 2012 Rally 10m - Rally provides better low end and better power as it's so much faster to steer and work. The Speed is floatier in jumps though.

Not going into holy war of foils vs. LEIs - each has its own better and its darker sides. I ride and admire both.
I ride 137cm Spleen RIP regular/high wind, 170cm Flydoor XL, MHL Lift
Having dealt with drift launches and water landings a lot I ended up flying 15m Turbine on 37m lines rather than "washing" my foils in 7 knots winds.
Last edited by grigorib on Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Regis-de-giens
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### Re: How do foil kites sizes compare to inflatable kites?

Ouaouh ... Don't like to enter too deep in polemics, but I need to clarify things on some comments ; Believe me or not, I never exaggerate my reports, intentionally at least, neither here nor on the french forums I am participating for years. I am just passionate by light wind rides, try to put a maximum of objectivity. I really have nothing to sell, no commercial interest with nobody, I own different kite types and brands, and I paid all of them at the normal price. I am even not comfortable influencing people to buy this or this! Because then I feel responsible of non-adapted choices or deceptions. Propaganda is a wrong attribute, sorry ; I just do reviews to illustrate and share, I hope you noticed this in the tone of my reports.

I say again that wind measures can be tricky but I see we definitely cannot avoid them ... my wind scales reference is as follows (onshore wind), so that everyone can re-calibrate this scale to its own experience and figures (I also put my upwind abilities in correspondance with the related kites and boards, me with 60 kg which OBVIOUSLY has a significant impact):
-10 knots : little foam on every 2-3 waves (= Speed 3 15m or Big LEI with a large Door TT, or HF with 9m LEI):
- 9 knots: far less foam than waves (=Aurora 22m or Speed 2 15m with standard TT or HF with 9 m Light LEI)
- 8 knots : some rare white foam here and here , say one every 100/200 meters (= Aurora 22m or hardly Speed 2 15m with large TT or HF with Speed4 10m lotus)
- 7 knots : no foam at all, regular little waves by the wind ( Aurora 22m with L Door TT or HF with Speed4 10m lotus, limit)
- 6 knots : micro waves, water reflect is still uniformally blurred by the wind (Pulsion 12m with HF); standard foil kite can stay at the zenith
- 5 knots : some parts of the sea surface is visually less disturbed by wind, glassy almost like a mirror (Pulsion 12m with HF) ; only light foilkites stay at the zenith ( lotus, Silver arrow, Diablo, ect ...
- under 5 knots : local or uniform sea surface without reflect distortion by the wind (Pulsion 12m with HF but no waterstart); only kites like FS peak or Pulsion or maybe Ozone R1 V2 stay at the zenith

I understand it can bring some doubts for people who did not try very light kites, but now on 4 people having tried this same kite (all without financial interest to sell any, I can promise), they all said they reached new low ends (weight of the kite and stability/agility are to me the key factors).

Ok sorry guys for the digression, now I will only bounce on technical questions, more interesting for other readers.

Back the initial question "power" of foilkite vs LEI , I would just add that it highly depends on what you call "power" and your objective:
- if it is the ability to waterstart and stay upwind at the minimum low end possible, LEI are to me in the same range than Foilkites ; for example with a TT, it is easier to stay upwind with a LEI fat lady 17m than a speed3 15m (and even speed3 19m to be discussed since I think it was a poor light wind kite); Hydrofoil is not so far from this situation if we just talk about minimum wind for planning and stay upwind. Foilkite will indeed benefit from more projected area but LEI will be more agile for working and generate the lift for waterstart like using loops with short lines ...

- if it is rather the ability to ride the faster possible (in an identical low wind but not searching for the absolute minimum low end), then a Foilkite will benefit of its higher L/D ratio, hence a better frontward angle of traction to generate speed.

Another example to illustrate the difficult answer "foil vs LEI" power: a medium skilled TT rider looking for top low end may feel the LEI has more "power" (at low speed, the foilkite will go "too" far away in the window with less lift), while a HF looking for better speed in low wind range of its kite will feel the Foilkite has more "power" because he can ride faster. And finally ... the case of a medium skilled HF looking for freeride in low end without special speed requirement ... he will be in between ... so his power preference can either be race LEI or freeride Foil, depending on its skills and kite designs

foilholio
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### Re: How do foil kites sizes compare to inflatable kites?

Don't get worked up Regis, Pullstrings is just a troll on the same level as PMU. They are both bitter about foils because they don't have the skills for them. They convinced themselves it's the kites and not them. They are on a religious crusade to convince others, like door knocking mormons or mor.ons lol.

PullStrings
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### Re: How do foil kites sizes compare to inflatable kites?

kitexpert wrote: Hydrofoiling in 3-4 kn is of course impossible with 12m foilkite,probably with any kite (even 30-50m sizes).More realistic is four times stronger 6-8 kn,which is still very very low.

Thank you for your expertise and non BS Mr. kitexpert

foilholio
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### Re: How do foil kites sizes compare to inflatable kites?

^^^^^See a troll.^^^^^

The more replies he gets and trouble he causes the happier he gets.

This is how you handle them

Of course hydrofoiling in 3-4knots is possible I have seen it many times, infact kiting on lightwind boards like twin tips is possible in such wind and lighter!. I have seen it and done it many times Pullstrings and twitspert are too kook to do it but that doesn't mean it isn't possible.

Carlos_C
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### Re: How do foil kites sizes compare to inflatable kites?

I think pullstrings sounds like mr superez so did ride foils

just as vervet on the old foilzone was the same as flying weasel on KF

Lokihel
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### Re: How do foil kites sizes compare to inflatable kites?

foilholio wrote:Of course hydrofoiling in 3-4knots is possible I have seen it many times, infact kiting on lightwind boards like twin tips is possible in such wind and lighter!. I have seen it and done it many times
Jumping out of an aeroplane with a kiteboard on your feet and a kite instead of a parachute does not count a kiteboarding in my opinion.