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Pansh Aurora2 22m-first session

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Jamie-NYC
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 22m-first session

Postby Jamie-NYC » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:15 am

foilholio wrote:I am surprised it twisted up like that. My A15 behaves very nicely on slack lines. Keeping it directly overhead(which you did?) and backstalling will help. When the kite is directly overhead it will hold its balance not going to one side, with some backstall it tends to drift better and you can keep an eye on it a bit deeper in the window. Inevitably things can go wrong and you need to back out at the first signs by cutting back and retensioning the lines, obviously in direct onshore this is not possible, dropping off the wave may work though. If foils collapse with or without line tension you want to keep the rear leaders pulled so the kite will open quickly and correctly when on the water or still in the air.
I did more than just keep the kite overhead - I swung beneath it, leaving it well to windward of me. This was operator error, not a kite issue. I have had no issue with the kite overflying on it own - I think the 2:1 bar helps with this.
foilholio wrote:The fastest way to shore when you are far is to roll the kite up first. Which unless you have flotation is very difficult. You can swim short distances like you did without rolling but it is slower and gets much slower as the kite fills with water. You can also sort out tangles on the water, but without flotation you are likely to get tangled in lines and drown. My advice first is don't go far from shore and if you are wear flotation. Eventually you will get much better with foils and you may find the situation you ended up in was easily avoidable. I have only dropped my A15 about 2 times in the 20 or so sessions I have had on it. Both would be because of no wind. I go the kite onto the water so it was in a position to relaunch (i.e. flew it to the middle) and when the wind returns I just flew it again. There is techniques to fly kites off the bridles and self rescue, specific techniques to swim with kites, like dragging one sideways so there is less resistance and less water enters and ways to roll kites. I am not full versed on much of this because frankly I almost never use it. What I do know is never ever approach a kite with loose lines in the water, the day you may realized that is good advice may be your last, therefore always wrap your bar up. As to packing up try asking some hydrofoilers as they drop their race foils and tangle them almost continuously.
Yes, the reason I needed help getting to shore was the weight of the kite - after 15+ minutes in the water, weighed maybe 25 pounds. A lot to swim against. I have sorted lines on the water with LEI kites, and do know how to stay clear of lines in the water. Had I been far out, would have tried, obviously. Interesting about self-rescue flying from bridles - but with 18m? Don't think so. And how to relaunch after coiling lines, when kite will clearly be "wet." As to floatation, I solve some of that problem with my board. The board I found best matched to the A15 is a very old Jimmy Lewis directional from early kite days - likely 15 years old. It's a 7'4" twin-fin board, narrow, 3 straps. Craigslist, $80. Goes upwind like a rocket in 8.5 MPH wind, skipping off the tops of swells. Relatively floaty - can almost come to a stop on it and keep it floating. Great board. I think I'd be able to wrap the kite and wind some of the lines around to hold it on the board, then swim in with it. But for me it's big directionals only with the foil from here on out.

foilholio
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 22m-first session

Postby foilholio » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:02 am

Jamie-NYC wrote:I did more than just keep the kite overhead - I swung beneath it, leaving it well to windward of me.
Yep I have done this many many times, foils can come out of it alright but not often. They need to be literally directly above your head before it happens. Any tilt and they start to tilt and slide more to that side, the more they are tilted the quicker they go to that side. Then the kite will end up twisting or dropping through a bridle or something. It is best to start a drift with the kite down wind a bit so you can keep an eye on it and retension the lines if needed, but with it out of sight and overhead I have down this maybe 1000's of times successfully. Running downwind of the kite and pulling it in reverse will undoubtedly cause problems.
Jamie-NYC wrote:This was operator error, not a kite issue.


You are learning, don't worry about it!

Jamie-NYC wrote:Yes, the reason I needed help getting to shore was the weight of the kite - after 15+ minutes in the water, weighed maybe 25 pounds. A lot to swim against.
Yes it does get difficult. I have actually swum stupidly till a kite had pretty much completely filled with water. Surprisingly although it "seems" really hard to swim and almost impossible, it is actually mainly inertia of the water you fight against, once you get moving in a direction you can keep moving in that direction. It becomes very to and fro, pull and tug but you can move. What does become impossible to swim against is if you have a tangle and the kite is catching water like it would air when flying. This is like a sea anchor and nearly impossible to swim against. As often swimming with a foil will be because of a tangle you are best to pack up so as to avoid this "sea anchor" situation.
Jamie-NYC wrote: I have sorted lines on the water with LEI kites, and do know how to stay clear of lines in the water.
That is good, you can not wrap lines maybe 99 out of 100 times and there will be no issue. But that 1 time out of a 100 will make you wish you had done it the other 99 just so you did it that 1 time :o nearly dieing is not fun.
Jamie-NYC wrote: Had I been far out, would have tried, obviously. Interesting about self-rescue flying from bridles - but with 18m? Don't think so.
Guys I know that have done it with 15 and 17m foils so it is not much extra for an 18. I would fly from the pulley lines , easier to hold, near where the front main and pulley lines meet you can vary tension on A and B nicely to fly by rotating your hands back and forth, you can steer by one arm in one out etc. I have done this many times on land just for fun and to check the kite out. Surprisingly in wind you can kite board, a kite is still easy to fly/hold directly on the bridles/mixer.
Jamie-NYC wrote: And how to relaunch after coiling lines, when kite will clearly be "wet."
You mean on bridles? or in general? well for both you are going to want to untangle it and get it TE down. If it gets water inside you need to get the kite up on a angle so it drains, with good control of the rear lines and maybe fronts. The A15 doesn't have as good drains as flysurfer, the tips on the A15 ain't permanently open and not as big so it takes longer. If you allow the kite to fly forward and collapse and maybe tangle again you can then have to repeat the whole process which you will avoid again if you don't give up on foils at that point :-)

Jamie-NYC wrote:As to floatation, I solve some of that problem with my board. The board I found best matched to the A15 is a very old Jimmy Lewis directional from early kite days - likely 15 years old. It's a 7'4" twin-fin board, narrow, 3 straps. Craigslist, $80. Goes upwind like a rocket in 8.5 MPH wind, skipping off the tops of swells. Relatively floaty - can almost come to a stop on it and keep it floating. Great board. I think I'd be able to wrap the kite and wind some of the lines around to hold it on the board, then swim in with it. But for me it's big directionals only with the foil from here on out.
I mean flotation for your body, i.e. a vest. Some guys a claiming to sit on boards and pack up like that, which you can do but it would be more difficult than using a vest. I would just get confident enough with the kite that on simple tacks upwind you don't have to worry far from shore, then do jumps and other stuff close to shore so if something goes wrong you have less of a problem if something goes wrong.

Some of those old boards can be quite good :-) Doesn't have to be complicated for lightwind either, I know people that have gone to places they couldn't bring a board, bought a sheet of wood, a saw and some wax. Works really well apparently.

windrider1
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 22m-first session

Postby windrider1 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:48 am

be carrefull tht pansh junk of a kite might be your last session one day. they have a history of collapsing . shame on u foilholio.

Jamie-NYC wrote:
foilholio wrote:If you want to avoid self rescue nightmares stay close to shore. Even I get worried about the 22m, it's a lot of fabric.
My summer kitesurfing is over after many sessions with an A15/18m. The very last session marked the very first time I dropped the kite. Jumped off a wave and was sloppy with the kite, left it overhead too long, and swung way under it in only 11mph of wind. It must have twisted 5 times as it drifted down to the water, and then kept going in a loop - not a death loop, just flipping over and over on the water surface. I quickly realized that if I didn't eject, the lines might well become too wrapped to slide freely, so eject I did. I was 150 yards from shore in surf, and unfortunately directly upwind from a swimming area - my first concern was keeping the kite out of that swimming area. I swam - dragging the kite - along the shore to clear the people in the water, and my kite was helped ashore by a friend on a knee board.

The experience gave me considerable pause. I kite in the Atlantic ocean, often getting as far as 1/2 mile out (in side-on winds only, never in offshore winds). I do not jump or take risks on the outside, only close to shore, but one day the kite will go down when I am out. Obviously, relaunch is the first choice, if possible, and might well be possible. But if not, how to get the kite back to shore? Does it turn out that my conditions and preferences are not well suited to a foil kite? I don't know.

foilholio
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Re: Pansh Aurora2 22m-first session

Postby foilholio » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:20 am

Windrider you have completely misunderstood what happened to him and the kite. It is so far removed from your realm of experience I wouldn't expect you to understand either. Nor that fauxexpert, he is about as kook as it comes.


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