@Borist you can try flattening and shortening the Z bridle to get more power but reduced turning. You add extensions to lengthen the tips( in a smooth arc,you could try match Z to C like I did on my genesis) then shorten all of Z.
kit??expert?? wrote:Why aren't these kites "changed" for "more pull" at first place? Or is it perhaps so it would make kite so bad otherwise it makes no sense to do it?
Because everyone likes a different kite. This is why the market has a wide variety of kites, low AR, high AR, tube, foil, single skin. etc. Foils designed for maximum pull have worse upwind and stability.
kit??expert?? wrote:And is there a need for tinkering to get kites working optimally/better?
Lets not confuse a general optimal with what one person likes over another. Because of the reason mention above "everyone likes a different kite" and also the materials , i.e. lines and fabric, never remain static, being able to adjust a kite is essential to maintain or achieve certain flight qualities. No company on earth has been able to design materials for fabric kites that maintain flight qualties 100% over time, despite what Gunnar claims about Ozones new pulley lines
kit??expert?? wrote:Is it really so that professional designers can't finish their own kites
Not at all, it's just with a sport as diverse as kitesurfing, and serial production, designing a kite for everyone that suites them all perfectly is not possible. There is fault on the designer part though, and this is some of criticism I have against you, kite designers have limits, I think which stems from there own experience, on how they can view why kites should be designed out side of what they think is optimal. This is why thinner kites, strutless kites and even foils, while heavily criticize by some designers and riders, still yet find a market and a market that is desperate for more. Designers seem to need to come from left field like with Greg at BRM to design these things. L/D is awesome but not everything.
with resources much beyond any hobbyist, with many prototypes and countless hours of test flights?
Yes but the resources are devoted to generally a limited area. This why we have probably about 100+ custom molded versions of chicken loops. One concept lots of resource thrown at it. No one can think outside of the one box. It's a human problem I think. Herd mentality. It's why the oddball brings the new idea first.
kit??expert?? wrote:Perhaps with Pansh there is room for user work
Certainly, they are not as refined as flysurfers in design for sure, but then they have different kites to flysurfer. The great irony is flysurfers quickly go out of tune and the same things that are often needed on a Pansh are needed on a flysurfer or any foil.
kit??expert?? wrote: but the main issues of these kites are much deeper than which tinkering can reach
I don't think so. The alterations funalex did to the aurora1 are really impressive. And show what an advanced tinkerer ( and now kitedesigner
) can achieve. Things like bridle placements and canopy are difficult but not impossible to alter either. "About" the only major thing wrong is if A is not being placed far enough forward, B can always retard A, but A sets a limit. Of course there is other things but that is an example.
kit??expert?? wrote:Tweaking foil kites is possible
Glad you acknowledge it.
kit??expert?? wrote: but it is best not to except too much.
Of course there are limits.
kit??expert?? wrote: If mod is successful in some relation, some other properties of the kite get worse.
That can often be the case but it is not always!
kit??expert?? wrote: Real differencies come from much more fundamental things: kite size and AR are the most important ones, then used airfoil (thickness, camber) etc.
Yes and camber and arc are alterable on foils. I can discern "Real" differences. But hey maybe you just have trouble observing things, we had that discussion
OR maybe you just have a strange understanding of what Real is.
kit??expert?? wrote: No matter how much you tinker A15 it does not become compareable kite to Sonic.
Of course. They are vastly different kites. But for some thing as simple as pull, yes this can be altered and in fact increased past the "standard" Sonic. The Sonic 2 has the diablo line so "pull" will increase on that and of course anyone can alter a Sonic to increase pull most likely beyond an altered A15.
Regis-de-giens wrote:Not sure to get your point as it reaches my english limit, but Sonic and a15 are not at all on the same segment, and i think nobody buy a A15 to try to tune it into a sonic !
A15 is more about drift, quick turn, stability , plug&play, accessibility and relaunch rather than more speed for the sonic, don't you think ?
Foilholio wrote: "setup for more pull it can match a standard setup sonic or better it."
I'm afraid some wrong beliefs may arise if this kind of words are taken too seriously... But who would
kit??expert?? wrote:Of course it is too shady and unprecise to write about the "pull" of kites in that case
No not at all Pull or Grunt is merely a lay mans term for the aerodynamic force, which is the lift and drag combined.
kit??expert?? wrote:A15 and Sonic are quite different kites and they produce their pull differently
Yes they can, but the Sonic would need a thinner airfoil to achieve that
You will have to make an admission either way.
kit??expert?? wrote:But when Sonic gets going it of course pulls much more than A15, that is why it beats lesser kites when raced.
Nope just because one has greater pull or force does not mean one will win races. The force needs to point more forward and! be good or greater. If you have a really large force but it merely points backwards you will never go upwind. Races have upwind annnd downwind sections.