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Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?) Update: Yes, it's an Elf

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kitexpert
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby kitexpert » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:47 am

Your views sound reasonable. I haven't seen a Diablo in person but I've checked it and liked how it is made. I do know the origins of it in Gin kites and know their reputation with gliders. Their snowkites had some unique design too.

Now second version of Diablo has higher cell count, apparently to fight against R1's and Jokers. It is interesting to hear your observation of difference, no doubt these are there. One explanation is Diablos diablo line, but now there is at least an option for other race kites to have it too. These kites have differencies elsewhere too, and Sonic is again different kite. Good for development.

I know there is interest to join race kite scene for some brands which are not there yet. I think olympic status for hf racing will come and that of course increases the interest to be part of it. Money and publicity are good incentives :)

socommk23
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby socommk23 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:50 am

I dont think its punch has anything to do with the camber changing line. I almost allways fly with mine fully sheeted in unless on a long reach. Meaning i dont ever have it fully powered up with the bar pulled in.

Bletti
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby Bletti » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:04 pm

Adam Withington used to ride elf (and is now working with slingshot) so it makes sense if there's some osmosis.


socommk23
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby socommk23 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:34 pm

Either way. New race kite development is always exciting.

Mossy 757
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby Mossy 757 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:16 pm

socommk23 wrote:Either way. New race kite development is always exciting.
Especially when that development results in kites like the R1V2 and Sonic2. I think the best advancements yet to come in foiling are making race kites faster but also easier and more stable for everyone to use.

kitexpert
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby kitexpert » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:27 pm

socommk23 wrote:I dont think its punch has anything to do with the camber changing line. I almost allways fly with mine fully sheeted in unless on a long reach. Meaning i dont ever have it fully powered up with the bar pulled in.
Ok, to be able to say more I should have kites for testing at the same time. But no doubt there is differencies. I know how to make kite feel stronger when sheeted out, but it means sacrificing the depower.
Mossy 757 wrote:making race kites faster but also easier and more stable for everyone to use.
This is the goal, but it is a challenge because there is some contradiction there. It is a bit like to say to bike manufacturer: "I want a bike which is two pounds lighter but 50% stronger".

I don't mean there is not room for development in race foil kites. There certainly is, newest are just second generation kites (from major kite brands).

socommk23
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby socommk23 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:58 pm

2lb lighter but 50%stronger........carbonfibre!

Anyhow....

Im yet to try the camber change feature and will endevour to but in kite buggying im yet to find a situation it can be used without backstalling it. The only time i can imagine is to power up while turning a point to downwind. But i dont think it will work to sustain high speed down wind.
Just a fast kite and flying it right does that just fine.

Mossy 757
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby Mossy 757 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:54 am

The newest Elf kites have it and boy does it work! To get it engaged on my setup I just put a little more back stall in my bar setup. On the hydrofoil it's amazing how deep you can run, but only properly powered up...too light of breeze and it gets squirrelly. Really cool feature.

foilholio
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby foilholio » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:10 pm

Mossy you should try it against a WAC line one day and also combined, that is crazy.
socommk23 wrote:2lb lighter but 50%stronger........carbonfibre!

Anyhow....

Im yet to try the camber change feature and will endevour to but in kite buggying im yet to find a situation it can be used without backstalling it. The only time i can imagine is to power up while turning a point to downwind. But i dont think it will work to sustain high speed down wind.
Just a fast kite and flying it right does that just fine.
You are talking about the diablo line? Increasing camber reduces stall, so you can sheetin further before the kite will stall, lift increases as well like that. More lift and a lower stall point mean the wing will fly in less wind, like when riding downwind... so it rides better downwind. I believe the downwind leg improvement of such mods is the reason they are used in racing.

socommk23
Frequent Poster
Posts: 475
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:05 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Hill head
Favorite Beaches: Brean. Uphill. Pembrey. Hill head. Meon shore
Style: Keeping the kite dry....hopefully
Gear: F.one diablo 15, 11 and 8m . Pansh aurora2 15m. Pansh sprints and firsts and Adams and flux .
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby socommk23 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:23 pm

foilholio wrote:Mossy you should try it against a WAC line one day and also combined, that is crazy.
socommk23 wrote:2lb lighter but 50%stronger........carbonfibre!

Anyhow....

Im yet to try the camber change feature and will endevour to but in kite buggying im yet to find a situation it can be used without backstalling it. The only time i can imagine is to power up while turning a point to downwind. But i dont think it will work to sustain high speed down wind.
Just a fast kite and flying it right does that just fine.
You are talking about the diablo line? Increasing camber reduces stall, so you can sheetin further before the kite will stall, lift increases as well like that. More lift and a lower stall point mean the wing will fly in less wind, like when riding downwind... so it rides better downwind. I believe the downwind leg improvement of such mods is the reason they are used in racing.
This i dont understand.

Increasing camber would increase lift, an increase in lift increases drag. This would surely bring the stalling point to a lower speed. Therefore can not reduce stall.
I have had the kite fly above my head and used the camber change and it will stall as you pull the bar in before the brakes are on. Surely this is just aoa and boundary layer separation. For some reason i cant get my head around increasing camber being usefull for extreme down wing angles.

Can anyone do a sketch to enlighten me?


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