Page 15 of 16

Re: New foil from Ozone

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:55 pm
by Regis-de-giens
Hanks for the detailed answer. There seem to be no velcro at all at the end of the wing, right ? Strange (Like sonic race and Elf but both have no velcros) because it seems apriori in detriment of internal pressure, but I am certainly wrong if it works... ;
Another question : Are the seams glued of top of seamed ?

Re: New foil from Ozone

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:36 pm
by mgs
The dimension of the opening has presumably been calculated to provide adequate drainage as needed as well as keeping the wing tip fully inflated when in flight as a result of the internal pressure.
Not quite sure as to where that white plastic tube is located in the pictures provided by “flying grandpa”

Re: New foil from Ozone

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:01 pm
by flying grandpa
Regis-de-giens wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:55 pm
Hanks for the detailed answer. There seem to be no velcro at all at the end of the wing, right ? Strange (Like sonic race and Elf but both have no velcros) because it seems apriori in detriment of internal pressure, but I am certainly wrong if it works... ;
Another question : Are the seams glued of top of seamed ?
There are additional velcro opening - some 5 cm. It is accompanied with a piece of dacron to keep it open. I cut it off, so if velcro will open in the air (due to high water flow, or if I forgot to close it), it will close during flapping of the tips.
Be aware that zips in each air inlet are partly open when you unpack the kite. Close them to be sure they will keep water away from the inside of the kite during first session.
As I was inspecting the seams, I didn't found any glue around. The awesome tightness is due to hi quality of seams and material, and due to minimum amount of seams. At least as they are new. The importance of significant rib holes to free air movement inside for kite stiffness is difficult to overestimate. (IMO)
mgs wrote: Not quite sure as to where that white plastic tube is located in the pictures provided by “flying grandpa”
Plastic tube was used just to have a size comparison.

Tadeusz

Re: New foil from Ozone

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:05 pm
by borist
kitexpert wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:30 pm
Only kite I know personally in that category is Matrrixx3, but I don't know how it compares to those kites. It is light weight kite anyway.
I only tried a large size Matrixx3 (18?), so hard to compare accurately. Did not impress me at all other than the ease of use. Partly because of this I did not believe lower AR foil kites are really useful for riding with HF. Until I got HL :D. Now I can see why Regis likes Pulsion

Re: New foil from Ozone

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:09 am
by Skywalker7
gmb13 wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:18 pm
kitexpert wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:33 pm
Ok. Unfortunately there are no Hyperlinks around (yet) and old FS kites are more or less out of tune and/or don't keep their pressure. That was one of the reasons I started to move to LEI's.

It is of course totally unfair to compare new foil kite to old and used one. I have sometimes almost laughed when owner of the new kite has sincerely wondered how much better kites have become...

I'm not going to get Hyperlink because I have Ultras which fill very well my need for that kind of use. For sure they don't have comparable hangtime but their handling (bar feedback, turning speed, ease of use) is much above any foil kite. I have couple high AR race foil kites, but I don't use them that often nowadays.

It is true Unity was a bit strange kite, it felt so soft and gutless. Also P4's wingtips were too unstable, but in practice it wasn't so big thing. P4 wasn't big hangtime kite for sure and Speed3 offered higher performance with not much drawbacks. I've thought that was the reason FS quit producing mid AR kites.

I remember all the big words during the years for example for Frenzys. In practice they were low aspect low performance kites, slow and unefficient. We used to ride circles around them with Speeds and own kites. Frenzys evolved through the years, but it still is what it is: low aspect kite.

If Hyperlink really has near Speed3 performance with much lower AR it is unbelievable achievement. I don't know how it could be possible but if it is true Hyperlink is probably universally best foil kite ever.
Have you seen this video of mine:

phpBB [video]


Compare that to my old speed 3 video. In that video I am on a 15m Speed 3 in similar conditions. In my VLOG vid I am on a 9m Hyperlink. About 20 knots wind, same spot. Pretty much the same height and hangtime with 6m2 less and 6 years older.

phpBB [video]


--
Gunnar
Well, to me the Speed 3 video looks like to have way more jump height and hangtime. Even though just to compare a 2017 product to a Speed 3 which was designed and produced from 2009 is a joke, not to mention the earleir kites like the Psycho 3 or 4. Kinda like saying that the Ozone Enduro2 is better kite than the 2009 Cabrinha Crossbow and way better than the 2007 Switchblade.

Ozone is great in figuring out new productlines when they are realizing that they are unable to make a marginal improvement in a product, then they are creating a new product in a totaly new segement where there is practicaly no serious competition. They have done it quite a few times in paragliding industry and also in kitesurfing. It is very good that they can think outside of the box.

Per my viewpoint Foil kites has 3 areas where having obvious advantages over tube kites: landkite/snowkite usage (easy packing, no pump, durability on land, etc) and because of perfomance (jump height, hangtime, upwind) and the lightwind factor( more stability in lightwind due being much lighter kite, better pull due to more perfomance and higher projected area, and possible relaunch in 4-6 knots of wind) . While foilkites has clearly one weaker area over the tubes and that is the stability/collapse/relaunch combo.
So for me the comparison would be makes sense either to any freeride Foil, like the Flysufer Speed 5. Or for water use it would make sense to compare it with an Ozone Edge V9 or a Flysurfer Boost 2, if it has more perfomance or not (jump height, hangtime, upwind) and for sure tube kites has way better relaunch .

I also understand Flysufer while they are only makeing high performance freeride foilkites like the Speed5 as on land relaunch is not an issue and for water they might think the foil kite has to give some performance advantages over tube kites unless it is not really making sense to have a foil kite as obviously the tube kites will have better realunch and stability in gusty wind then a foil kite.

And I also understand Ozone that they are creating such a low aspect simple foil kite product where no real competition exist really, while many new companies tries to make higher performance foils not just Flysurfer and Ozone but also Slinghshot, Liquid Force, Elf, PL Aero, North etc.

Re: New foil from Ozone

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:39 am
by kitexpert
I tested 12m size of Matrixx3. It was ok kite, but a bit slow and soft to my taste. It is a stable kite, I had it couple of times all lines slack but it just drifted back without collapsing. It packs very small. However it doesn't have as much performance as speeds.

Tube kites have also better handling, that more precise feel. They also react faster to power/depower. Because you get used to foil kite feel I don't see this critical though. But I must say having Ultras with wonderful bar feel and reactive speed I'm not going back to foils (low AR) 8)

Re: New foil from Ozone

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:34 am
by gmb13
Skywalker7 wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:09 am
gmb13 wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:18 pm
kitexpert wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:33 pm
Ok. Unfortunately there are no Hyperlinks around (yet) and old FS kites are more or less out of tune and/or don't keep their pressure. That was one of the reasons I started to move to LEI's.

It is of course totally unfair to compare new foil kite to old and used one. I have sometimes almost laughed when owner of the new kite has sincerely wondered how much better kites have become...

I'm not going to get Hyperlink because I have Ultras which fill very well my need for that kind of use. For sure they don't have comparable hangtime but their handling (bar feedback, turning speed, ease of use) is much above any foil kite. I have couple high AR race foil kites, but I don't use them that often nowadays.

It is true Unity was a bit strange kite, it felt so soft and gutless. Also P4's wingtips were too unstable, but in practice it wasn't so big thing. P4 wasn't big hangtime kite for sure and Speed3 offered higher performance with not much drawbacks. I've thought that was the reason FS quit producing mid AR kites.

I remember all the big words during the years for example for Frenzys. In practice they were low aspect low performance kites, slow and unefficient. We used to ride circles around them with Speeds and own kites. Frenzys evolved through the years, but it still is what it is: low aspect kite.

If Hyperlink really has near Speed3 performance with much lower AR it is unbelievable achievement. I don't know how it could be possible but if it is true Hyperlink is probably universally best foil kite ever.
Have you seen this video of mine:

phpBB [video]


Compare that to my old speed 3 video. In that video I am on a 15m Speed 3 in similar conditions. In my VLOG vid I am on a 9m Hyperlink. About 20 knots wind, same spot. Pretty much the same height and hangtime with 6m2 less and 6 years older.

phpBB [video]


--
Gunnar
Well, to me the Speed 3 video looks like to have way more jump height and hangtime. Even though just to compare a 2017 product to a Speed 3 which was designed and produced from 2009 is a joke, not to mention the earleir kites like the Psycho 3 or 4. Kinda like saying that the Ozone Enduro2 is better kite than the 2009 Cabrinha Crossbow and way better than the 2007 Switchblade.

Remember that is was Kitexpert who wanted to know the comparison between Speed 3 and the HyperlinkV1. I just obliged.

--
Gunnar

Re: New foil from Ozone

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:43 pm
by kitexpert
Speed3 was the first kite which combined quite high performance (high AR) and good stability. Of course it it old design now, but it has higher specs than for example Hyperlink, more cells and more AR. Speed3 has also jet flaps, which have sound aerodynamical basis. But it is questionable if they are worth their weight and cost.

I know later Speeds quite well and I must say development after Speed3 has not been very remarkable. Speed3 is third model of the series, so even though it is old now it had long development behind.

If now Hyperlink reaches (almost) same performance than Speed3 with lower AR and simpler design it is remarkable. One benefit HL has over Speed3 is it has LE stiffeners. So LE area is smoother in Hyperlink than it was in Speed3.

Re: New foil from Ozone

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:13 pm
by Hardwater Kiter
A little tid bit.

AR on the Hyperlink starts at 4.5 on the 5m up to 5.2 on the 12m.

Re: New foil from Ozone

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:35 pm
by kitexpert
Hardwater Kiter wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:13 pm
A little tid bit.

AR on the Hyperlink starts at 4.5 on the 5m up to 5.2 on the 12m.
Good to see different kite sizes designed separately. Difference between AR's of Speed3 and HL12 is actually not very big, 5.2 and 5.8.

Now Speed5 has 6.15 AR and also more cells. Interesting to see if this trend continues with next Speed model - or is it time to have a new name and fine tune the segment for that kite. FS already has two Sonics and Peak, (and two LEI's).