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FS speed 5 vs Sonic V1

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downunder
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Re: FS speed 5 vs Sonic V1

Postby downunder » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:22 am

^
Tom is not a beginner on HF ;)

I've got used Sonic FR v1 a couple of weeks ago. It is a dream. The bar input is decent, what we love on a TT. Backstalling it like a pro. Could not front stall it, was not windless. Loops like a heli, 3 times or more in a spot, no probs. Moving it from each side of wind window was like a nicest experience ever. This is not a kite, it's a small paraglider on steroids.
Back launch did not try.

Sonic has velcro vents on tips. I think this is important since I did splash heaps of water inside to clear the sand and salt, and kite was dry in 3hrs on 25C outside. I always wash my kites after a few seshs ;) I think Chrono v1 has no vents.

Re water relaunch, I witnessed and watched Psycho 4 in a white mush for 45 minutes or more. And the guy launched it after, rode in. Also seen the guys swimming in with Chronos on flat water. It really depends.

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Re: FS speed 5 vs Sonic V1

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:38 am

Being a good Hydrofoiler indeed help choosing a more tricky kite since he should avoid putting the kite in the water because of HF errors. And he won't be affraid of increased riding speed, that is right.

But still as a FOILKITE beginner from my understanding, it is more risky to encounter problems with a sonic1 (even if it is a good kite ) for example in gusty winds. Knows several good hydrofoileur buying race kites then stopped foilkites. Never happened around me with smaller ratios like speed5, Aero Navy, conceptair Pulsion, speed4 lotus. Now if the guy knows that he will love foilkite , is searching for high upwind angles and jumps, and knows those (manageable) risks , so perseverant personnality, he can try .

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Re: FS speed 5 vs Sonic V1

Postby TomW » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:07 am

Hi everyone, thanks for your considered responses.

I am indeed foil kite beginner, but been kitesurfing 16 years. I'm humble as I approach this, but know how to let a kite get some flow and depower on upstroke, most LEI like that too.

On Hf I guess I'm what you would call stage 1 intermediate, learning gybes in air and make about 70% of my heel to toeside on one side and do surface switch to toeside at speed on other side and fly out of kite downloop. I still make Hf pilot errors and crash, and floor kite slacking lines during gybe attempts, but I'm progressing more rapidly now that I can go out in more challenging conditions. It's winter here, but hope to make progression during Cabarete trip and start late winter sessions in mid March early April.

I think I will try my friends Sonic 1 11, no obligation to buy, and see what it's like. But really I'm attracted to the Sonic 2 or Chronos 3.

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Re: FS speed 5 vs Sonic V1

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:58 am

Hi Tom,

I know it is always a good chance if you know the owner. On the other hand I would recommend to listen to people with lot of experience with foil kites as Regis-de-giens and I would not sell my sonic1 to somebody with your foil and foil kite experience as knowing it will be the wrong kite.

When I was on the level of 99% flying jibes, jumps and some tricks, I bought an Sonic 1 11 m² with 16 years of foil kite experience. But I kept using my 10 m² Lotus freeride foil for further 3 month as I learned maneuvers quicker with the freeride foil, till I started to only use Sonic 1. This was when I was on the level to improve success rate of flying tacks. The Sonic 1 11 m² is in fact a great kite with great bar feedback (better than sonic2), but it is also a bit heavy for lowend. And it requires maybe the highest grade of skills to relaunch it, compared to about 30 serial model types of water foils I have used. At least when we are not talking about clean drop on the nose, back stall relaunch and go on, this can do everybody. But just if you put the sonic 1 on the trailing edge in a lull and let it fall on its back, which is absolutely no problem for 97 % of foil kites for a sonic 1 with someone without very much experience with this typical kite, it already means swimming. If learning rate and swimming is not a problem for you, ok. If you don't believe it, do your test, backstall land the kite in the water, release line tension for a second, let it completely fall on its back and you will see what I mean.

Otherwise the speed 5 for sure is a better choice but also foils even more towards freeride as Concept Air Pulsion, used Ozone Hyperlink or if you luckily get an Flysurfer Speed 4 Lotus best in 10 m² would make sense. If after a year you feel good with foils you still can upgrade to a sonic2 or Chrono 2-3 later.

Hope you like your new foil kite what ever it is. :)

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Re: FS speed 5 vs Sonic V1

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:48 pm

I am 200 % with Sergio, well detailed inuding the learning for jibe progression better with speed5 (or even better with speed4 lotus 10m (i had one beflre Pulsion) and even better with Pulsion that I strongly prefer vs speed4 for its incredible stabity and agility for equivalent speed and upwind.
Have fun in this choice period. i have heard of a " friend of a friend "who cells 2 used pulsions 12m (kite teacher in france) . One is band new . Maybe the drawback vs speed is more fragility is some very light cloth
PM if interested

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Re: FS speed 5 vs Sonic V1

Postby downunder » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:30 pm

Uhm,

Sonic v1 is awesome for TT, hence cant go wrong learning on one.

Than move to a Hf. Easy.

Same with a Hf, learn with LEI, move to foil.

Simple really.

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Re: FS speed 5 vs Sonic V1

Postby TomW » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:47 pm

Sergio,

So you think I shouldn't consider even a new Chronos 2/3 or Sonic 2 as first foil kite?
Stick with Speed 5, or Soul coming in April, or Hyperlink?

I've read elsewhere that Chronos is better choice for Hf in my situation.

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Re: FS speed 5 vs Sonic V1

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:21 pm

No chance for a demo ride?
Last edited by Kamikuza on Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FS speed 5 vs Sonic V1

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:15 pm

downunder wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:22 am
I've got used Sonic FR v1 a couple of weeks ago. It is a dream. ...
...Back launch did not try.
Every thing is easy as long everything goes straight and no problems have to be handled. But TT is not HF. Fling jibes on a HF are pretty difficult and can become dangerous if there is a lack of kite control. Otherwise you overtake your kite, run into slack lines with the foil, while falling yourself on the foil. Even if it goes well, you will have to relaunch a lot learning flying jibes on HF and also other manuevers.
This is what can happen on a foil if having lack of control over your equipment:
phpBB [video]


@Tom:
Just tried Chrono 2 and it is more or less what a Speed 5 is with maybe better bar feedback, but worse drainage, which can be improved with a scissor as described in another topic.
So Chrono 2 as Speed 5 is ok, but could be more on the challenging side. Without knowing, expecting Chrono 3 to be also good, but for sure not cheaper than Sonic².

Don't know your learning speed, but I would go with something like Soul, Hyperlink, Lotus or Pulsion, if I would be in your stage, as my goal is always: Learn as fast as you can.
And not: Having one of the most hardcore "Full Race" kites which the sonic was in its time, primary designed to win races, even if it was not to successful, but if you relaunch it, you will feel that relaunch was a not the main design topic. And you can always upgrade if you feel the kite blocks your progress. But don't expect this from the named freeride kite within a year.

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Re: FS speed 5 vs Sonic V1

Postby jakemoore » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:00 pm

Would the race kite have more sensitivity to an out of tune bridle compared to a free ride kite?

It's definitely true for a small foil kite compare to a big one with small changes in bridle length resulting in backstall, tip collapse, or asymmetric flight.

Possible analagy of maintaining a Ferrari vs a Toyota?


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