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Flysurfer Soul

For all foil kite riders


Kitemanmuc
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby Kitemanmuc » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:54 pm

kuit wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:35 pm
Kitemanmuc wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:27 am
Has anyone been able to compare the FS Soul and the Kitech FRS? I think these two might be even more comparable than Hyperlink and Soul.
Today I had the chance to fly a Soul 12 from a friend and compare it to my own Kitech 12 Free RS.

Wind was 6-13 knots. I used foil only!

My experience:

Both kites are very stable and want to stay in the air and in the right place. I think power during downloop is a little more gradual on the Soul. The Kitech has a power peak at the end of the loop. Both work good to get on the foil when you are used to it. Low end is about same I think.

The Kitech is a quicker turning and reacting kite. It likes to be moved. The power builds up quicly also. The Soul generates more power when it reaches speed, but builds it up a little slower.

Upwind angle and for sure topspeed is better on the Soul.

Both kites drift well and about the same I think.

Barpressure about same. Kitech feels a little more direct to me, maybe because I am more used to it.

Relaunch of both kites is excellent and about the same. I don't know about the Soul but the Kitech doesn't take much water. if It doesn't drop too bad I is relaunchable after 20-30 min.

Summary in my opinion (foil only, no twintip used, no jumping):

Both are excellent kites for foiling with about same low end.
Soul: easy with more performance/topspeed
Kitech: easy and more playfull/quicker turning
Thanks for the review. I just got to try the two of them as well. I would agree with you on all points. The Soul is going to boost a little bigger in my opinion.

kuit
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Gear: 7m Ocean Rodeo Prodigy gen 4
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby kuit » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:06 pm

Kitemanmuc wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:54 pm
kuit wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:35 pm
Kitemanmuc wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:27 am
Has anyone been able to compare the FS Soul and the Kitech FRS? I think these two might be even more comparable than Hyperlink and Soul.
Today I had the chance to fly a Soul 12 from a friend and compare it to my own Kitech 12 Free RS.

Wind was 6-13 knots. I used foil only!

My experience:

Both kites are very stable and want to stay in the air and in the right place. I think power during downloop is a little more gradual on the Soul. The Kitech has a power peak at the end of the loop. Both work good to get on the foil when you are used to it. Low end is about same I think.

The Kitech is a quicker turning and reacting kite. It likes to be moved. The power builds up quicly also. The Soul generates more power when it reaches speed, but builds it up a little slower.

Upwind angle and topspeed is better on the Soul I guess.

Both kites drift well and about the same I think.

Barpressure about same. Kitech feels more direct to me, maybe because I am more used to it.

Relaunch of both kites is excellent and about the same. I don't know about the Soul but the Kitech doesn't take much water. if It doesn't drop too bad I is relaunchable after 20-30 min.

Summary in my opinion (foil only, no twintip used, no jumping):

Both are excellent kites for foiling with about same low end.
Soul: easy with more performance/topspeed
Kitech: easy and more playfull/quicker turning
Thanks for the review. I just got to try the two of them as well. I would agree with you on all points. The Soul is going to boost a little bigger in my opinion.
you're welcome!
Last edited by kuit on Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:45 am, edited 3 times in total.

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flying grandpa
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby flying grandpa » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:24 am

My first 12m Soul session in 7-11kts. A no go wind for 12m HL.
Soul is faster and more agile - that is why it gives more power thanks to:
1.higer AR

Image

2.Cleaner surface thanks to more cell count 41 vs 31

Image

3. Thinner trailing edge due to narrower cell

Image

Image


I managed to lift off without downlooping and 10cm shorter bar was long enough.
Next session I will try 60 cm Ozone bar that serve my HL 12m.
I pump both kites with max pressure and left them for 20 min.

Image

Image

HL loose more air after 20 min. maybe the reason was it is 1 yer old kite?
Soul stay longer in light air, with tendency to drift rather then to fall onto the liding edge. That is due to less mass concentration close to leading edge.
Last but not least, Soul is gentle to self land by backstall and I dont know why is the difference so huge. Also sits quietly on its ass when walking the lines keeping them in tension and a bit of backstall position to kill the power. Next time I will try both kites in one session if the wind will be strong enough for HL.

9 ribs on each edge have no plastic battens and that may cause some problems with the tips? Not observed yet.
IMHO additional mini ribs on 9 cells from each tip at trailing edge (as in Sonic) would improve agility even more without increased tendency to overfly.

Tadeusz

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby Adventure Logs » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:11 am

flying grandpa wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:24 am
My first 12m Soul session in 7-11kts. A no go wind for 12m HL.
Soul is faster and more agile - that is why it gives more power thanks to:
1.higer AR

Image

2.Cleaner surface thanks to more cell count 41 vs 31

Image

3. Thinner trailing edge due to narrower cell

Image

Image


I managed to lift off without downlooping and 10cm shorter bar was long enough.
Next session I will try 60 cm Ozone bar that serve my HL 12m.
I pump both kites with max pressure and left them for 20 min.

Image

Image

HL loose more air after 20 min. maybe the reason was it is 1 yer old kite?
Soul stay longer in light air, with tendency to drift rather then to fall onto the liding edge. That is due to less mass concentration close to leading edge.
Last but not least, Soul is gentle to self land by backstall and I dont know why is the difference so huge. Also sits quietly on its ass when walking the lines keeping them in tension and a bit of backstall position to kill the power. Next time I will try both kites in one session if the wind will be strong enough for HL.

9 ribs on each edge have no plastic battens and that may cause some problems with the tips? Not observed yet.
IMHO additional mini ribs on 9 cells from each tip at trailing edge (as in Sonic) would improve agility even more without increased tendency to overfly.

Tadeusz
Excellent comparison. I'm sure after a year of use, the HL is out of tune but unfortunately there's no way to bring it back to factory performance without replacing the bridle. This factor plus FS's warranty really makes the Soul outshine the HL. Let us know if the larger bar makes a difference. I always like using the larger bar to speed up the kite a little more.

=Jason-

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby Flag53 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:35 am

Thanks for all of the reviews guys.

My 12m is on its way , just wandering what length lines people have been using with theirs ?

Cheers

andylc
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby andylc » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:05 am

I'm really interested if anyone has compared low end with Ozone Chrono V2 - they don't come in the same sizes so it would be 13m Chrono V2 vs 12m Soul. Anyone??

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby kitexpert » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:31 pm

Good and interesting comparison :thumb:

Couple notices: kites on top of each other shows how similar they are. FS as a later one countered with slightly higher AR and considerably higher cell count. Also inner structure is more refined is FS.

Pictures of billowing show kites are thick, but because kites are not in flying shape cell shape looks worse than it is in reality. TE's of either kite don't look very good, but again FS with higher cell count (thinner cell) has to be better.

One year old HL is not as airtight as a new kite. Seams and fabric give up, how much it depends use and conditions in which kite has been used. HL bridle is not as serviceable as FS's, but it is possible to strecth lines back to original lengths if out of tune problems exist.

For drifting properties it is about aerodynamics, not mass distribution which is not a problem in foil kites.

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flying grandpa
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby flying grandpa » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:10 am

kitexpert wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:31 pm

Pictures of billowing show kites are thick, but because kites are not in flying shape cell shape looks worse than it is in reality. TE's of either kite don't look very good, but again FS with higher cell count (thinner cell) has to be better.

One year old HL is not as airtight as a new kite. Seams and fabric give up, how much it depends use and conditions in which kite has been used. HL bridle is not as serviceable as FS's, but it is possible to strecth lines back to original lengths if out of tune problems exist.

For drifting properties it is about aerodynamics, not mass distribution which is not a problem in foil kites.
You are right, kitexpert. On the picture below both kites are lying upside down, without almost any furrows.


Image

On the other hand, I strongly disagree with your last sentence.
HL is a closed/ opon cell kite and you switch from one to the other fixture moving zips located in each of 5 air inlets. Additionally, each inlet is covered by velcroed net.

Total weight of five zips/ velcroe/ net is located at the leading edge and that is the reason of HL dive in light air

Tadeusz

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jakemoore
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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby jakemoore » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:58 am

flying grandpa wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:10 am
Total weight of five zips/ velcroe/ net is located at the leading edge and that is the reason of HL dive in light air

Tadeusz
I'm with KiteExpert on this one. The Hyperlink is balanced well in weight. Aerodynamics have a much bigger role and FS can demonstrate experimentally with Soul and older kites using the profile momentum adjusters. Otherwise LEI kites would never have solved the dreaded Hindenburg.

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Re: Flysurfer Soul

Postby kitexpert » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:40 pm

Whether wing front stalls or not depends on many things. It is possible to achieve extremely stable wing using reflex airfoils which have negative camber at the tail section. This shape restricts very efficiently nose diving because it presses tail down (negative lift) - and this becomes noticeable when most needed, at low AoA's. Then chord of the wing works as a lever arm of this (positive) moment, that is why low AR wings are always more stable than high AR wings (with similar airfoils).

Weight of the details like air intakes, velcros etc. are perhaps relevant if kite is used in extremely low wind, if there is such a lull wind dies completely. But if there is some wind, some lift generated, shape of the airfoil and towpoint (AoA of the wing) are much more important.

It is difficult to overestimate how much flying properties of a kite are influenced on airfoil shape. Airfoil makes or breaks kite, I know it in person :-?

Many LEI wave kites drift flawlessly even though their weight distribution is much more "unbalanced" than in any foil kite.


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