Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

HyperLink 7m vs Soul 6m - wave performance

For all foil kite riders


User avatar
flying grandpa
Medium Poster
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:02 am
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Siemiany, Rewa
Favorite Beaches: Stegna, Orle, Karwia
Style: hydrofoil long distance, slalom, waves
Gear: ZEEKO, Soul, Sonic.
Brand Affiliation: NONE
Location: Poland

Re: HyperLink 7m vs Soul 6m - wave performancep

Postby flying grandpa » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:19 pm

Setup with longer C line in a mixer and upper PMAs shorter one knot didn’t worked at all. Tips tucking was bigger than yesterday.
C even with ABZ and upper PMAs shorter one knot works best for very gusty wind 15-25 knots.
I keep pressing my bar evenly all the time to prevent collapse.
In case of collapse I push bar to my knee to cushion potential load peak.
foilholio wrote: Kites collapse on me all the time. I often oversheet them so they don't do any funny stuff when they open again.
I wonder if oversheeting is a remedy for evry kite position?

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: HyperLink 7m vs Soul 6m - wave performancep

Postby foilholio » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:47 am

Nice dig up there Jakemoore on the WAC :-)

I agree with small changes, little by little you can improve things. One thing though that can get people confused is different conditions can handle different setups better. One size does not fit all.


Oversheeting is great for kite control in most situations, you can even fly kites backwards while on waves. If you are really worried about getting a tug, fully depowering should soften it massively, stalling with oversheeting is good too! You basically need long throw with backstall. You need full depower and full stall and to know when and how to use it. Small foils are the hardest of all kites to fly, many give up on them. Flysurfer gave up making them for a while, same reason, that and they explode.

User avatar
flying grandpa
Medium Poster
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:02 am
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Siemiany, Rewa
Favorite Beaches: Stegna, Orle, Karwia
Style: hydrofoil long distance, slalom, waves
Gear: ZEEKO, Soul, Sonic.
Brand Affiliation: NONE
Location: Poland

Re: HyperLink 7m vs Soul 6m - wave performancep

Postby flying grandpa » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:35 pm

They explode from excessive speed. That is additional reason to reduce it some way, may it be fat profile, thicker trailing edge or jet holes opening at certain overpressure.
Something that creates significant drag above given speed. Have seen small parachutes dragged on the trailing edge of the big one somwere.
That may help to solve many issues like frontstall, overflying, excesive power peaks, drifting maybe.
It is very important value to have a kite that will resist full power impact onto the drink like we have seen it with Soul 10m.
We need kite speed in light wind to create lift. Strong winds supply air speed freely, there is no need to increase it by adding excess kite speed. We need kite agility rather.
That is my opinion as a kite user. Hope it will ring the bell among kite proffesionals.
Tadeusz

User avatar
jakemoore
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:59 am
Kiting since: 2004
Gear: Foil and 1strut kites.
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Oleander
Contact:

Re: HyperLink 7m vs Soul 6m - wave performancep

Postby jakemoore » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:25 pm

My recommendation remains: put the PMA back to normal and shorten C by 0.5-1 cm and fly the kite at least 20 hours.
foilholio wrote: Oversheeting is great for kite control in most situations, you can even fly kites backwards while on waves.
flying grandpa wrote: I wonder if oversheeting is a remedy for evry kite position?
If it’s flying backwards and you want that to stop, then push the bar away. I also like to set the bar to over sheet 5-10 cm. It’s great to put the kite over your head but deep in the window for example if crashing the hydrofoil or even if you just go downwind too fast. Also doing propeller turns are very fun. Only downside is it requires a little more feel especially if jumping.

User avatar
flying grandpa
Medium Poster
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:02 am
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Siemiany, Rewa
Favorite Beaches: Stegna, Orle, Karwia
Style: hydrofoil long distance, slalom, waves
Gear: ZEEKO, Soul, Sonic.
Brand Affiliation: NONE
Location: Poland

Re: HyperLink 7m vs Soul 6m - wave performancep

Postby flying grandpa » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:53 am

jakemoore wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:25 pm
My recommendation remains: put the PMA back to normal and shorten C by 0.5-1 cm and fly the kite at least 20 hours.
Sounds interesting. A small step in the direction of self-stable profile. I will try.

Just before hiting the water kite has max speed that creates max pressure inside. This stiffens kite structure, making it prone to destruction. If we can only relese that overpressure some way, we could save our kites from explosion.

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: HyperLink 7m vs Soul 6m - wave performancep

Postby foilholio » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:59 am

Pansh uses magnetic closures on the TE. Seems to work. They open quite easy and can close again.

User avatar
flying grandpa
Medium Poster
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:02 am
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Siemiany, Rewa
Favorite Beaches: Stegna, Orle, Karwia
Style: hydrofoil long distance, slalom, waves
Gear: ZEEKO, Soul, Sonic.
Brand Affiliation: NONE
Location: Poland

Re: HyperLink 7m vs Soul 6m - wave performance

Postby flying grandpa » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:17 pm

From my experience, explosion is connected with high kite speed. The smaller the kite, the stronger the wind and higher kite speed. Looking at Pansh offer, smallest is 7m and the speed may be not enough for kite explosion.
Sizes 6,5,4 are much closer to explosion.
I would prefer a walve that release excess pressure as soon as the kite reach dangerous speed. Maybe located at that point of the wing profile, where underpressue is highest at dangerous speed?
If the valve action will decrease max kite speed/power peak, it would be beneficial for kite control as well.
Tadeusz

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: HyperLink 7m vs Soul 6m - wave performance

Postby foilholio » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:05 am

Yep speed is the main factor, for that high wind speed is the main contributor. Even 8m flysurfers can explode in enough wind. I would think some of the race kites go faster, but they have more cells so stronger and less volume so less inertia equals less force at impact, maybe another good reason to have thinner kites? Though thinner kite will go faster so maybe that negates the lower inertia.

Pansh does make small kites, open cell down to 1.4m, closed cell fixed bridle down to 3.5m, depower closed cell 6m. I think they can also do custom sizes if you ask too.

Decreasing kite top speed has a rather large negative of less range, because of less depower and less workable power. I think the magnetic release valves show good promise. If a brand like Flysurfer was to R and D them they could make sure they work very well. Problem is Flysurfer seems to pride themselves in not borrowing others inventions. Psychological factor of it being a Chinese invention and from Pansh! Germans are a bit hung up on the Chinese copying everyone lol. Easy to forget it's what made America great too, Germans invented the car we just copied it. Time for people to get over themselves, open development is the future. Making property of ideas is stupid and hinders human advancement. Chinese invented kites and that's not stopping anyone.

User avatar
flying grandpa
Medium Poster
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:02 am
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Siemiany, Rewa
Favorite Beaches: Stegna, Orle, Karwia
Style: hydrofoil long distance, slalom, waves
Gear: ZEEKO, Soul, Sonic.
Brand Affiliation: NONE
Location: Poland

Re: HyperLink 7m vs Soul 6m - wave performance

Postby flying grandpa » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:09 pm

Image
Finally I’ve done a small modification to Soul 6. Put little removable brakes at vents openings.
Yesterday in gusty side-of 15-30 knots Soul behaved nicely. Slower through power zone; stayed deeper in WW = didn’t overfly in lulls. Happened 4-5 times to hit the water - kite remained in one piece. Maybe it was not max possible speed in that setup/wind.
I put rounded piece of thin plastic sheet to close vents.
I can imagine a smart thin constant pressure valve in vents would take care of inside pressure=impact resistance, reducing the speed even more.
I was amazed by almost auto relounch from head high waves (also white water). The kite relounched in 2-3 seconds without input from my side.
For this conditions would be better to have 4,5 m if I can only buy one with a bit thicker profile.

stefFZ
Rare Poster
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:20 am
Kiting since: 0
Style: Strapless surfing
Gear: Concept Air Waves & Pulsions. Still a couple of Flysurfers P4.
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: HyperLink 7m vs Soul 6m - wave performance

Postby stefFZ » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:38 pm

Unless you're a FS addict and you only get satisfied with a FS kite above your head, for wave riding the Concept Air Wave (strapless surfing and hydrofoil) is in my opinion unbeatable:

viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2394428

I had again two sessions this week under the wave 4.5 in good winds and 1/1.5m waves and the kite behaves like a trainer kite with depower, I could move it everywhere in the wind window and focus only on surfing. I think this is the best wave foil kite so far for the way I surf, i.e. by trying not to use the kite in the wave (and I now think that this is better than small sizes LEIs).

On hyrdofoils, some like also the small pulsion 3.69 (this is its size in m²). I like it less for strapless surfing because it has a little boost which is useful for hydrofoiling (in particular for waterstart and to get some instant power) but that destabilizes me when I am surfing.

The more I use it the less I am thinking about kites and focus on surf and some new boards design (I recommend some volume ... e.g. a groveler with a flat rocker and low toe angle for the fins unless you ride very steep powerful reef waves). This is the first time since I started kitesurfing (a little more than 15 years ago) that I think I am ok with my kites quiver! (waves 3/4.5/6.5 and pulsion 9m).

The other kite that I really liked lately is a FS Sonic² 6m, this is a great litlle kite as well (but obviously not for the same reasons)- so really nothing against FS in what I am saying above. They also do a very good job but for now Benoît Tremblay at Concept Air is clearly doing the best job for small sizes Wave foil kites.

Stef


Return to “Foil Kites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron