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New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

For all foil kite riders


Regis-de-giens
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Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:17 pm

I agree with you, lecca and monjet are far more exciting kites . But not the same at all.

I did some vid with my pansh kites (3) but also other brands I purchased (FS, Ocean Rodeo, Airush, Elf, and mostly Conceptair since I was the first to take the risk to buy one and it was a real game changer IMO before hyperlink and soul).

I encountered personal difficuties with Pansh once, so not really prone to "defend" them at any rate. But in a justice spirit and even if i never had one euro discount (And not requested any), i can only report my feeling that Pansh provides (most often) good kites. Disapointed people really exist and are more frequent than other brands. Ok. And i try to help them when requested , but still there is a risk for beginners to be disapointed . But there also are people really happy with them out of the bag. More than 2/3 I would say.

Second hand foil kites , even german ones, can offer even "worst" surprises like cloth porosity or briddle unsetting... so hard to sincerely advise a beginner in foilkites... A15 seems the less "risky" of all pansh models

foilholio
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby foilholio » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:58 pm

joriws wrote: videos proving that Pansh is a great kite from unboxing (like more expensive foil brands are)
They are there and pics if you go looking.
joriws wrote: and it handles aging (bridle shrink, porosity, fabric stretch) well
Seems fine to me. How is a video going to prove that?
joriws wrote:And that Pansh does not contain poisonous chemicals.
Ridiculous.
joriws wrote: For example I'd be more interested in Lecca-kite video reviewed by Horst Sergio than any of the Pansh kites
Honestly with the tip tucking I saw from Minima videos I would say the A15 is a way more refined kite. They are quite different kites as well.
joriws wrote:Or Monjet kite if seeking single skin kite.
The Monjet so far is vaporware. A couple of different prototypes have been videoed with completely different designs. It would seem things aren't there yet with that kite. I would be happy to be wrong though and see it released tomorrow.
Regis-de-giens wrote: Second hand foil kites , even german ones, can offer even "worst" surprises like cloth porosity or briddle unsetting...
Exactly. In fact all foil kites need some tuning at some stage. Also all kite company's have quality issues, including Flysurfer.

joriws
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby joriws » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:17 am

Foilholio, post a video of A15 used 50-200 hours on it, how you re-tune kite against shrinkage (mixer align or something else) and breath through the fabric if you can. How you replace bridle-part etc. BTW. I still see Speed3 used on water videos - after 10y of introduction and after 5y (or something) end of sale.

Chemicals - they are used for coatings (by every brand if you insist that statement). What does Pansh use? Safe chemicals for people? Remember kites are in car sometimes in high temperature and evaporate gasses. Our Customs stop considerable amount of clothes coming from China, India and Pakistan because of the chemicals used.

About Lecca-Lecca or Monjet. I just said I'd be more interested in checking those brands than brand-reputation-ruined Pansh if I were looking for something else with cheaper price than top brand. There are a lot more cheaper foil brands I'd try before buying Pansh => Kitech, ELF, Aeros, Paraavis, HQ to name few in order coming to my mind and not checking if they are alive anymore.

I noted tip tucking with Lecca-video but actually I don't mind tip tucking while turning. It is telling about dissipated lift from outside of turn wing tip when outside tip has very loose Z-bridle. But I mind if tip tucking happens in Zenith flight with some bar pulled and I did not see that in the video. You know LEI kites dissipate lift also on outside wingtip while turning - you can hear it with flapping sound. Remember - lift brings drag - which in outside tip resists turning input rider wants.

foilholio
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby foilholio » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:19 pm

joriws wrote:Foilholio, post a video of A15 used 50-200 hours on it
Sorry I do not see the point. My A15 is well past that and fine.
joriws wrote: how you re-tune kite against shrinkage (mixer align or something else) and breath through the fabric if you can.
I have written more on this with flysurfers mainly in mind than any? most? Foil kites are all much the same at some point, well they are to me. Any problem has been covered.
joriws wrote: Speed3 used on water videos - after 10y of introduction and after 5y (or something) end of sale.
I have seen 15+ year old flysurfers in near new condition. Age with foil kites it would seem is rarely a factor in wear. Use is another matter, I have seen Flysurfers ready for the bin after 3 years.
joriws wrote: Chemicals - they are used for coatings (by every brand if you insist that statement). What does Pansh use?
I would guess some rubber like product.
joriws wrote:Safe chemicals for people?
It is stable, doesn't rub off, doesn't smell (much). I would think it is safe, just don't eat it.
joriws wrote: Remember kites are in car sometimes in high temperature and evaporate gasses.
What about all the off gassing from the materials in the car? How about you just open a window.
joriws wrote: Our Customs stop considerable amount of clothes coming from China, India and Pakistan because of the chemicals used.
1. We don't "wear" kites.

2. You are a racist.
joriws wrote: I just said I'd be more interested in checking those brands
Welcome to the free market.
joriws wrote:brand-reputation-ruined Pansh
I think their reputation is fine. They are what they are. Best value you can find in the kite industry. Not the highest performance but the cheapest, and by a very large amount.
joriws wrote: There are a lot more cheaper foil brands I'd try before buying Pansh
Well they are certainly not "cheaper" than Pansh. Pansh IS the cheapest. I think you mean cheap, but maybe not that cheap if comparing to Pansh. You would be better just saying there is other brands and forget the whole cheap word. Other brands do not really compare on price to Pansh.

Oh and I know you didn't intend it that way.
joriws wrote: I noted tip tucking with Lecca-video but actually I don't mind tip tucking while turning.
Living with Psycho4s and liking to tune to the edge, I too can tolerate it. That said it is better if a kite does it less or not at all. The Minima is a DIY kite vs Pansh who now has a long history of designing kites. The Minima is interesting as it strays from the normal path of kite designs. I can only support that as it offers the chance to advance kite design. I will say the A15 goes an unusual path too. The Minima is a little weird as the chosen design seems to offer as a main benefit a reduction in weight, but then such heavy cloth is used.

No doubt the tune on the Minima can be changed to alter the tips. Maybe the designer has just chosen it like that, as he has a similar preference for the edge. Flysurfers have used the sewn shape to control the tips. Which for a kite like the Pyscho4 creates a problem when the kites shape changes with age. It can be fixed but just much more effort than bridle work. I would guess the PMAs are an effort to solve this.

F-Bear
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Gear: Kites: Switch Element V3 9m, Switch Nitro V4 14m, Best Waroo 17m, Airush DNA 13m, Pansh A15 12m
Boards: Lightwave Wing, Slingshot Wakefoiler with H4 wing
Bars: Mash-up (favorite is older Airush with ozone trimmer, Switch CL, custom lines)
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby F-Bear » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:51 pm

Oh dear ! What is all this arguing about one brand vs another brand ??? Sort of pointless, IMHO. Everyone is different, and has different requirements and expectations of any product they buy. Can't make everyone happy all the time....

For me, the Pansh A15 12m offered a way to try out a foil kite, without committing a bunch of money. It is that simple. Maybe down the road I'll write a check for a brand-name kite but for now I'm happy learning about foil kites with my Pansh. There is zero customer service or instructions or anything with a Pansh, you just get the kite. That is fine with me, as I can figure stuff out. And so far, have done NOTHING to the kite and it flies fine.

I got a lot of great info on this forum over the years so figured documenting my experience with a Pansh might be helpful to someone else who is considering buying one. Foil kites are a bit different for those of us with hundreds of hours on LEI, so maybe this will help someone figure out what bar to use, what the kite is good for, how it works for landboarding, how it works for hydrofoiling, differences in how it flies compared to LEI, etc. Hopefully my posts accomplish this ! Moving on.......

Yesterday I removed my homemade 2:1 bar so I can update it. Did this in my living room so not enough space to layout the lines and kite and swap things carefully...so just taped the 4 attachments together and put the kite back in the bag. BTW, the Pansh bag is very minimal...no strap to carry it with. So I'm going to add a single strap to make life easier. Anyways...after work today the plan is to re-attach my normal 1:1 bar and see how I like that in slightly stronger winds. I've only flown the kite with this bar in 3kts wind and today it is supposed to be 8kts. What that really means around here is gusts to 8kts (or more) with long lulls. If things go well I've got my landboard and will give it a go.

Will report what happens in the next post.....

F-Bear

foilholio
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby foilholio » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:03 am

I just use another kite bag if I need a backpack. The old trick with old flysurfer bags is they could carry about 3 kites. The Pansh bag does it's job and protects the kite from minor damage.

Pansh has upset a few people. I think many resellers and brands, are not fond that a company is supplying kites at near brand prices. If Pansh sells at the brands cost then how can anyone make a mark up? Resellers have no hope. Before Pansh started selling water kites, they only sold land kites. I think the UK retail market for land kites suffered a massive disruption from this. The water kite realm has a lot more innovation. I think unless Pansh started blatantly copy kites, which some brands already do!, or improve their designs and quality a little and also most importantly sell LEIs, then water kite market is quite safe from them. The foil kite market could have some trouble. As a foil kiter with lots of experience, Pansh makes kites that are quite good enough. Given the price and performance, they are the best value you will find in kiting.

The Brands bring this on themselves. Compete or die. It should not be surprising that China the main supplier of Kite gear anyway would eventually have indigenous brands. Cabrinha could even be considered Chinese given Shriro's connection to China. Hopefully the competition forces brands to reconsider their sales model and we end up with cheaper gear.

sonny2727
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby sonny2727 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:00 am

Thanks all for posting info on Pansh...I could get a A15 15m UL version for about AUD 750 without bar ...whilst thats not like 200 bucks it's not as 2500 which is the price of a big brand kite...one thing that puts me off is the bar compatibility as pansh need 5 line bar or something...can someone tell me what bar options I have...

foilholio
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby foilholio » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:20 am

No you do not need a fifth line, front line safety is fine. Also consider Aurora 2 in 15m+. Higher AR is more stable in bigger size foils, slightly cheaper than the A15 and has shorter bar throw as standard.

neilhapgood
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby neilhapgood » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:40 am

Could you fly either the aurora or A15 with a north 5th element bar? If so what length line would be recommended?

Regis-de-giens
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Posts: 844
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:58 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:39 am

I also use my a15 and ex aurora on 4 lines bar. You can see the length of the 5th line on Pansh site as far as I remember. I seem to remember it should be 5 meter longer than the other 4 lines.


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