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Self Landing Foilkites in 20+kts

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mike pepper
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Self Landing Foilkites in 20+kts

Postby mike pepper » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:54 pm

Self Landing Foil Kites in 20+kts
Easy enough when someone is there to catch the wing tip but when no one is there as I see it there are 4 options:
Drop to side of window and sprint down wind to where the kite will tumble, then spend the next 40 minutes unravelling the bridal lines and picking the seaweed out.
Drop it out to sea and work your way up one of the leading lines then drag it waterlogged to shore and spend the next 40 minutes unravelling the bridal lines, picking the seaweed out, draining the cells of water and if your lucky some fish...
But what if there is no one around and no beach left to let the kite tumble? direct downwind of you?
Last summer I was using a large shrub to park my kite on and it flops over the shrub and all the little bridle lines get hooked in the tree. But this spring the tree has grown to about 3 to 4m high and I cant get the lines out easily, so I tested a tethered system. I unclipped from my harness and tethering the front lines to one of those spring D clips which was tied to a post. Flew the kite to the side of the window and attempted to walk down the lower lines. The problem was I couldn't steer the kite having left the bar and unlike LEI kites the foil kite does not want to just park and wait. I kind of worked in light winds but really was a bit sketchy so I am too scared to try in 20 + knots.
There has got to be a solution out there somewhere? Like a little post with a hook in that you can fly your bridle lines into then sheet out?
Any experience or ideas?

Flyfish
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Re: Self Landing Foilkites in 20+kts

Postby Flyfish » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:59 am

Takes practice, but I back stall it starting at the side. I used to back stall it straight down from 12:00, but in high winds that can go bad. So now I put the kite low to the ground but not touching. Then commit hard to the back stall and swing it around just a few feet off the ground.
Again, I suggest practice in moderate winds first before overpowered conditions.

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foilonfoil
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Re: Self Landing Foilkites in 20+kts

Postby foilonfoil » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:47 am

Does not happen often... I bring it down the side of the window until the tip touching the beach then flag it out. Ideally the flag line is the lower line. Last time I did this, the kite was well behaved.

foilholio
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Re: Self Landing Foilkites in 20+kts

Postby foilholio » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:03 am

In 20knots it depends on what size I am on, 6m is easy to reverse, but 18m is going to safety. If I have a wind shadow to reverse into I will often reverse in higher wind.

You can prevent tangles by having a correctly place stopper on the line, and or good technique. Fifth lines are great and I wouldn't use a high wind foil without one.

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Re: Self Landing Foilkites in 20+kts

Postby tomtom » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:27 am

Sorry for off topic - But it looks like foil experts are here. Im in progress of making my own carbon bars and as I dont use leash at least 12 years without accident, i want to continue with this practice.
However, i do use flagging in form of oh shit handle. On these new bar i want use back lines as oh shit flagging handles in same manner as they was used on older kites /till about 2006 back line was usual flagging line/. It will be the cleanest setup. Can i flag modern foil kite on back line? I tried it on beach in 10knts and everything looks fine - except back line bridle has obviously weaker attachment to kite. Also what is reason behind 5 line on foil kite? How it is attached? I know only ozone reride on open cells but this is different or?

many thanks

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Re: Self Landing Foilkites in 20+kts

Postby foilholio » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:36 pm

The leash is not for your safety but others...maybe for your wallet too if you like saving your kite and reduced liability.

A lot of foils have weaker rear attachments and are not designed to flag on the rear but it seems to work. You can only test and find out as you did. Maybe things break in 20kt+

A fifth line attaches to the center bridle attachments of ABCZ each or dedicated attachments in the center with it's own bridle weighted more to the center rear. It is very reliable safe easy way to flag foils. I use it to land all the time. But it adds drag and a little weight ,and inversions or rolling can wrap the kite and lines cross more complicated.

The fifth folds the kite in half, the ozone system collapses the kite into a ball, which only open cells can do. That said a fifth will eventually deflate a kite pushing the air out the tips, but it's slow.

Front line flagging can break things on foils and more rarely so can fifth lines. Mainly bridles and straps but attachments can rip. Higher the wind with bigger kites the more likely this can happen. You can release with kite on the water to help avoid it or with it low, which is good to minimize flapping and shock.

If you want some fifth bridle measurements look at flysurfer line plans.

You know you can have a clean setup with a leash? , micro leash like from FS or BRM style.

tomtom
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Re: Self Landing Foilkites in 20+kts

Postby tomtom » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:40 pm

Many thanks for answer. Yes i know about all bar setups. But BRM is technically not leashed setup - it can be loosed accidentally as easy as no leash. All leashed setups brings its own safety problems which are not widely discused. There was quite a lot drowning from "flaged" kite - where bar was for some reason stuck. A lot of people used handlepass leashes. Leashes was needed in past where kites has very limited "primary" depower and QR was standard measure to solve a lot of situation. Now i wasnt emergency QR at least from 2006. I flag just for landing purpose where have plenty time to hit O shit handle and QR then. There are a lot of situation - dragged by boat etc. where standart 2 step procedure can lead to danger. If you use very reliable connection to kite /not chicken loop / dick combo/ I think leash is not needed - but thats me :) My new setup will be /if it work/ O shit handle on back line direct on bar /under back line/ so just grab oshit and QR also in emergency.

There is f.e. recent accident in Danemark where guy broke ribs because short leash QR stuck under his harness midair and after landing almost puncture his ribcage.

Also is there any known case where runway kite hurt somebody in roughly 20 years of kiting?

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Re: Self Landing Foilkites in 20+kts

Postby Flyfish » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:15 pm

Hey Tomtom, don't worry, your not the only one that rides leashless.
I also ride without a leash (granted I live in a remote area).
I also use oh shit handles to give me the option of grabbing / flagging. It's a great compromise.
But I would suggest putting the oh shit handle on a front line.

tomtom
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Re: Self Landing Foilkites in 20+kts

Postby tomtom » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:35 pm

Thanks for suggestion :)

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Re: Self Landing Foilkites in 20+kts

Postby foilholio » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:41 pm

It is mainly the lines that hurt people. Drowning a swimmer or cutting someone is not cool. Run away kites have also caused significant physical damage, power lines are a favorite and boats. Also wait till you see what a loose kite can do to other kiters.

What is funny is you argue against the BRM release because you can release completely with one step, then proceed to argue for leashless because.. you can release completely with one step...

A short leash is not that short if it still gets stuck somewhere. The QR on the leash can be designed well. BRM style can be made 2 step or more. Wait till that ohshit handle breaks or takes your finger off or you lose grip.

Being unleashed is very irresponsible and may cost you one day. My leash has saved me, my kite and others many times. Why do I say me? because knowing my kite is safe and in control if I flag it I never hesitate to do so.

That all said I do release my whole kite when needed and the 2 step is rarely a problem. Often kites can be fully released with no issue but not always.

Good luck.


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