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Mast resin infusion

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downunder
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Re: Mast resin infusion

Postby downunder » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:49 am

Ok,

cool, thanks for that. Question, where does a peel ply go? Peel ply would be used for vacuuming but not for infusion as I understand?

D.

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Re: Mast resin infusion

Postby GrantL » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:02 am

Hey down under. Here is a pic of my mast infusion.
Basically the outer spiral tube is drawing the vacuum completely around the part. The resin will take the least resistant path. The middle line is the feed from the resin pot along the length of the part. You can't see the peelply as it is infused, but it covers from the center flow medium out to the vacuum tube. V tube is also covered in 1 layer of peelply. The green plastic mesh is sown around the center feed spiral tube and is cut short from the mould edges. This green flow mesh is sitting on top of infusion flow medium, which allows easy flow of the resin. Basically that is what you do for a mould.

In your case you would need to run 1 feed line on either side of the mast mid position, sitting on top of flow medium as in my pic. So cut it around 15mm short all around both sides. Lay peelply the remainder 15mm plus another 40-50mm to your perimeter vacuum tube.
Bag the whole assembly.
What do must do is control the flow rate of resin to the edges, to fast and it won't wet out correctly, too slow and it will stop. You need to use flow valves for this.
I suggest infuse 1side then the other once the flow stops. If you do together the resin will take the easier route and possibly stuff it up. When the infusion is complete Turn off all feed valves and keep vacuum going until resin is set.
Also you must use infusion resin which has a low viscosity, so is really thin.

Good luck
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GrantL infusion .jpg

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Re: Mast resin infusion

Postby kostantin » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:49 am

Hi,

I am not a big fan of putting tubes on the part, because you will have the tube marks on the surface. Better keep every thing outside. So we infuse from left to right or right to left, depends on which side of the earth you live.
I don't use valves to control the flow, but I cut the flow media short. So in the beginning you rush the resin and once there is no more flow media, the resin flows very slow. Grant, what I dont understand looking on your setup, you don't have any connection from the vakuum tube to the part. I use toilet paper small stripes. Very good posible that you finished your part only because of the two large wrinkles on your foil meeting the vakuum tube.

tks

Kosta

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Re: Mast resin infusion

Postby downunder » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:32 am

There is a connection, it's a spiral tube in the middle if I'm not mistaking.

Hmmm, how would one infuse 1 side only on a closed mold though? We talking completely opposite if the above which are two sides, separate infusion.

Was that ever attempted?

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Re: Mast resin infusion

Postby kostantin » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:43 pm

I have never seen such a setup. But as long as it is working....there are a lot of ways to hold a cup with hot coffee.

tks

Kosta

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Re: Mast resin infusion

Postby granini » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:22 pm

@Konstatntin: He has a connection between the vaccuum tubes and the feeder line with the peelply, what is hardly to see as it is already infused with resign. The peelply covers the feeder line to the border side of the vacuum tubes.

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Re: Mast resin infusion

Postby GrantL » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:44 pm

Correct.
Outside of pic is a manifold with multi vacuum lines feeding into resin trap.
I normally feed from the center of part to reduce the travel distance through carbon. The pic is of a mast half which is 6.5mm thick, solid unis and double bias.
But for infusion on the outside of a mast (no mould) you could infuse left to right as carbon laminate in thin

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Re: Mast resin infusion

Postby GrantL » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:52 pm

downunder wrote:There is a connection, it's a spiral tube in the middle if I'm not mistaking.

Hmmm, how would one infuse 1 side only on a closed mold though? We talking completely opposite if the above which are two sides, separate infusion.

Was that ever attempted?
If you want to make a complete closed mold infusion is not the method. It would be impossible to get the laminate , tubing inside. Also it is impossible to remove. I have attached a diagram which details the method you can use in small section parts. But this uses prepreg carbon laid into each mold half. Inside the mold you need to make lap joints which expand onto the inside walls of the laminate halves. To do this you need to but vacuum bags/tubes inside the assembled mold . Vacuum bag the whole mold on the outside , venting the tubes to atmosphere. So this created vacuum inside the mold pushing the laps outwards. Prepreg mold is cooked under vacuum to fuse as on. I have also attached a photo of exactly this , making this bike frame. The mold is a made in 4 pieces.
prepreg.JPG
bike 1.jpg
The laminate thickness varies ,on the horizontal beam it is only 1.5mm thick. The chain and back stays are 3mm thick. The frame weighed in at 850grams. With is method you are unable to remove the vacuum tubes , they remain inside.

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Re: Mast resin infusion

Postby plummet » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:02 pm

kostantin wrote:Hi,

I am not a big fan of putting tubes on the part, because you will have the tube marks on the surface. Better keep every thing outside. So we infuse from left to right or right to left, depends on which side of the earth you live.
I don't use valves to control the flow, but I cut the flow media short. So in the beginning you rush the resin and once there is no more flow media, the resin flows very slow. Grant, what I dont understand looking on your setup, you don't have any connection from the vakuum tube to the part. I use toilet paper small stripes. Very good posible that you finished your part only because of the two large wrinkles on your foil meeting the vakuum tube.

tks

Kosta
I'm thinking i agree with Kostantin. Though I havent done resin infusion before I have had tubes and structures on the inside of the vac bag over the work for vairous reasons. You can sometimes end up with a wrinkle of carbon. Not so bad in Grants instance when he has female moulds. The wrinkle will be on the inside. But if you have a wrinkle on the outer layer you will have to grind it off which could lead to a loss of strength at at that point.

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Re: Mast resin infusion

Postby GrantL » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:09 am

plummet wrote:
kostantin wrote:Hi,

I am not a big fan of putting tubes on the part, because you will have the tube marks on the surface. Better keep every thing outside. So we infuse from left to right or right to left, depends on which side of the earth you live.
I don't use valves to control the flow, but I cut the flow media short. So in the beginning you rush the resin and once there is no more flow media, the resin flows very slow. Grant, what I dont understand looking on your setup, you don't have any connection from the vakuum tube to the part. I use toilet paper small stripes. Very good posible that you finished your part only because of the two large wrinkles on your foil meeting the vakuum tube.

tks

Kosta
I'm thinking i agree with Kostantin. Though I havent done resin infusion before I have had tubes and structures on the inside of the vac bag over the work for vairous reasons. You can sometimes end up with a wrinkle of carbon. Not so bad in Grants instance when he has female moulds. The wrinkle will be on the inside. But if you have a wrinkle on the outer layer you will have to grind it off which could lead to a loss of strength at at that point.
You are correct, but if you are infusing through a thickness of laminate that has unis in it the resin can often stop. The flow starts off fast and slows over time. sometimes the distance you are infusing is to great to got left to right. As the thickness of laminate increases the slower it infuse. Also my first suggestion to downunder infusing from the middle has the tube sitting on infusion medium which is probably 3mm thick. Also what I didn't say is the spiral tube I cable tie into a loop of the green mesh. So when the vacuum comes on you can hold the tube up OFF the part. Then you don't get any impregnation of tube in laminate. Infusion can be a little trial and error to get the best solution. If you are doing a 1 off there is always risk. Infusion is really best used in a mold.
Just my experience


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