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8mm G10 for front wing?

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faklord
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8mm G10 for front wing?

Postby faklord » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:46 am

Hi Folks,
I've come across a decent size sheet of 8mm G10/FR4.
Wondered what your opinions are wrt using this for a front wing?
Is is just too thin or can I compensate, from a lift point of view, by just going for a bigger area? (obviously this isn't going to help much with stiffness)
If needs be i could vac some additional glass or carbon onto it to increase the thickness/stiffness but prefer not to.

I guess the obvious answer is:
1) make one
2) try it
3) if not stiff enough/not enough lift - add layers

But what I'm after is some expert opinions on the chance of it working ok without adding layers.

Thanks

BWD
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Re: 8mm G10 for front wing?

Postby BWD » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:46 pm

I would think 10-12 mm would be a better guess.

TomW
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Re: 8mm G10 for front wing?

Postby TomW » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:55 pm

I'm no expert, but how about just putting a 3-4mm layer of epoxy and glassfiber ( powder) on top side to take the foil shape? Or hand layup some layers.

ahmthai
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Re: 8mm G10 for front wing?

Postby ahmthai » Wed May 03, 2017 8:24 am

G10 is probably too flexible at 8mm and thinner. Also, very thin wings do not to have a good low end and tend to stall dramatically. I would do one of the following:

-Epoxy 2 sheets of 8mm G10 and shape.
-Use epoxy fill to build up and then shape the 8mm G10 to make a core. Laminate the core with a combination or UD and biax carbon for stiffness.
-Use plywood or high density PVC for a core and laminate with carbon. Plywood and PVC are much cheaper and easier to shape than G10. For the layup you can use 600g UD and 300g Biax carbon on each side.

Good luck,
Andrew

Harri
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Re: 8mm G10 for front wing?

Postby Harri » Wed May 03, 2017 9:28 am

8mm is OK!
I've done 2 sets of wings 1 year ago. They still work really fine, by now ca. 60 sessions without any problems. Both frontwings out of 8mm G10 FR4 as you said. Measurements 61 x 16 cm. They are for example stiffer than wings from Alpine Foil (5.0 Access). Thea are really hard to bend!!! The rearwings (38 x 11 cm) i've made out of 6mm G10 FR4, also no problem. Meanwhile 5 other kiters have built there own wings with similar shape and identical Material. No problems!
Repairing scratches is also very easy. Go for it!
I used these plates: http://www.masterplatex.de/epages/62236 ... FR4-schw-s

faklord
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Re: 8mm G10 for front wing?

Postby faklord » Wed May 03, 2017 11:00 am

Harri wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 9:28 am
8mm is OK!
I've done 2 sets of wings 1 year ago. They still work really fine, by now ca. 60 sessions without any problems. Both frontwings out of 8mm G10 FR4 as you said. Measurements 61 x 16 cm. They are for example stiffer than wings from Alpine Foil (5.0 Access). Thea are really hard to bend!!! The rearwings (38 x 11 cm) i've made out of 6mm G10 FR4, also no problem. Meanwhile 5 other kiters have built there own wings with similar shape and identical Material. No problems!
Repairing scratches is also very easy. Go for it!
I used these plates: http://www.masterplatex.de/epages/62236 ... FR4-schw-s
Thanks for that. Exactly what I was hoping for...someone who has tried it rather than just a guess...
I have used some 8mm for a stab and that certainly seems pretty stiff.
Would be interested to see the plan shape of your wings and also know the profile(s) used?

Thanks

Harri
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Re: 8mm G10 for front wing?

Postby Harri » Wed May 03, 2017 11:38 am

Enclosed the outline of both frontwings. One has 60 cm span, the other 62,5 cm. Also attached the outline of the rearwing. I would prefer the frontwing with 60 cm due to the straight trailing edge, just easier to work with. I just cut it out of the plate. Then profiled it with a belt sander (80-100). The lines in the plate show you, how exact you are. The maximum thickness is approx. one third behind the front edge. Profile is just on the top side, the other side stays plane. RW is mounted reversed to get some lift down. Make finetuning with sandpaper (150-300). My wings are not to exact (see pics :-? ), but work well in freeriding-style! It all took me about 4 hours for a FW and 2 hours for the RW.

Interesting post from Zeeko-Chief Nicolas regarding the RW: http://www.nwkite.com/forums/t-35608.html
Attachments
IMG_4840.JPG
IMG_4839.JPG
IMG_4838.JPG
Rearwing Media.pdf
(272 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
Frontwing Media.pdf
(268.38 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
Frontwing 60cm.pdf
(279.4 KiB) Downloaded 30 times

faklord
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Re: 8mm G10 for front wing?

Postby faklord » Wed May 03, 2017 3:58 pm

^^
Harri. Many thanks for that.
Those wings have a pretty large surface areas (larger than the norm, i think?). Is this, I wonder, to compensate for the lower lift from the thin profile?

It seems amazing what can be made to work :D

On a different note, your fuselage looks like untreated Al. Do you not have corrosion issues with stainless bolts? or maybe "Local Beach: Austria and Italy" means you mainly sail in freshwater lakes??

Looks like a nice simple home-build :thumb: . What did you do for strut/board interface?

juandesooka
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Re: 8mm G10 for front wing?

Postby juandesooka » Wed May 03, 2017 4:05 pm

I have Stringy wings which I believe are 10mm G10. I copied one set and am in process of making a Spitfire copy.

The only place where the 10mm appears to matter is at the bolt connections, and even there only 1 or 2 of the bolts have the full 10mm thickness -- the rest angle down from there, with less thickness.

The rest of the wings are very thin, down to maybe only 2-3mm at the tips. I suspect your 8mm sheet will work fine. In fact, one major advantage is a LOT less sanding! With 10mm, you are sanding out up to 75% of the material....that's a lot of sanding.

If you are making our own fuselage too, you may want to have more bolts spaced closer to compensate -- the stringy has 6 bolts on front wing, 4 bolts on rear wing.

Harri
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Re: 8mm G10 for front wing?

Postby Harri » Wed May 03, 2017 9:42 pm

faklord wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 3:58 pm
^^
Harri. Many thanks for that.
Those wings have a pretty large surface areas (larger than the norm, i think?). Is this, I wonder, to compensate for the lower lift from the thin profile?

No, nothing due to the thin profile! On my homespot we have mostly winds with 8-12 knots, i'm weighing 95 kg, with Naish Ride 10m i'm fine....thanx to the big wing :thumb:

It seems amazing what can be made to work :D

On a different note, your fuselage looks like untreated Al. Do you not have corrosion issues with stainless bolts? or maybe "Local Beach: Austria and Italy" means you mainly sail in freshwater lakes??

The fuselage is harded Alloy, untreated. By now no mather with corrosion, and i am using stainless bolts. But you're right, mostly fresh water. One friend had the possibility to anodize it. I only clean it in fresh water after a session in salt water

Looks like a nice simple home-build :thumb: . What did you do for strut/board interface?

I have a mast from Manta Foil and i am using their mast plate. It's quite expansive but works great with holes and spacings for almost all brands. The whole foil costs about € 400,00, most expansive the base plate with € 225,00
Last edited by Harri on Thu May 04, 2017 6:47 am, edited 2 times in total.


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