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New North Foil's 'PA Carbon Mix 50'

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NYKiter
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New North Foil's 'PA Carbon Mix 50'

Postby NYKiter » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:16 pm

Anyone familiar with this magic gew?
Is it carbon fiber reinforced polymer, carbon fiber reinforced plastic or carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic (CFRP, CRP, CFRTP)?

BWD
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Re: New North Foil's 'PA Carbon Mix 50'

Postby BWD » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:35 pm

Have you considered it could be a form of C-R-A-P?
;)
Knowing north I'd wager it's whichever uses the cheapest raw materials in the most expensive automated factory machines. And prob still works best with 5 lines

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Re: New North Foil's 'PA Carbon Mix 50'

Postby bacon2109 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:54 pm

carbon fiber reinforced polymer = CF with epoxy or polyesther or other resin ( room temp / high temp ), too vague......

50 MIX seem to be a added filler to the resin, (by weight 50% ), which one ?
or a
50% CF with 50% FG fiber cloth or 50% of other fiber

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Re: New North Foil's 'PA Carbon Mix 50'

Postby NorCalNomad » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:27 pm

PA = Nylon
Carbon Mix 50 = (probably) 50 percent chopped long strand carbon fibers.

That's actually a super sturdy way to make parts as most professional grade power tools are some sort of PA GF 20-60 (Nylon with glass fiber 20-60 percent)
NYKiter wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:16 pm
Is it carbon fiber reinforced polymer, carbon fiber reinforced plastic or carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic (CFRP, CRP, CFRTP)?
...Technically...the first two things are the same. Epoxy is just a thermoset (at a low temp most times) "plastic." But yes it sounds like it's a carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastic.

If anyone is thinking this is a bad material might want to talk to Lambo/VW group about those opinions https://www.lamborghini.com/en-en/brand ... composites (North may or may not be using this exact tech but if it's a PA CF mix then it's not far off)

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Re: New North Foil's 'PA Carbon Mix 50'

Postby BWD » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:44 pm

@norcalnomad
from your splashy lambo web link, that is just a way to make a sort of prepreg mat, somewhat between glass and carbon.
Great way to use carbon scraps, if you are big company that doesn't mind that it's tooling/capital intensive.
No doubt it works great and gives a good result. The extra flexibility must help pulling parts from huge, complex million-dollar molds as shown.
Might not really be necessary for simple foil shapes, unless their molding strategy is unusual.
But they probably get carbon scraps by the ton practically free from other parts of their own business.
North has a decades-long habit of going a little farther than practical on the high-tech/industrial side with their factory methods.
Some of their products are awesome and real advances in state of the art, but many just cost more than the competition.

I would guess that if this product is more durable and easy to repair and care for than conventional carbon-epoxy parts, it may be a real advance.

For a smaller business, it's as effective (or more) to intercalate lower modulus layers into a carbon epoxy laminate, giving material cost savings, increased damage tolerance, and no additional tooling requirements. Because this approach can still use precisely oriented continuous carbon fibers, it has higher performance potential as well.
Sooner or later perhaps someone will use this method in production.
Somewhere there may be someone already doing it and not admitting that their laminate is not 100% carbon...

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Re: New North Foil's 'PA Carbon Mix 50'

Postby TomW » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:48 pm

You think it's injection molded? or compression molded?

NorCalNomad
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Re: New North Foil's 'PA Carbon Mix 50'

Postby NorCalNomad » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:35 pm

TomW wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:48 pm
You think it's injection molded? or compression molded?
Some sort of molding if Nylon is in the mix. Doesn't surprise me since tons of biking shanks and cleat plates are made with nylon and glass or carbon fiber in there as well.

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Re: New North Foil's 'PA Carbon Mix 50'

Postby TomW » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:00 pm

NorCal,
Yes PA being a thermoplastic. But those thicknesses, if injection molded would deform from cooling shrink. I wonder if they are compression molding over a Core.
Big time tooling costs! But lower piece cost.

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Re: New North Foil's 'PA Carbon Mix 50'

Postby airsail » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:25 pm

Compared the rigidity of the new Naish Thrust to the North Speedster in the shop, seems to be a lot more flex in the wings of the North. Couldn't demo either but the flex put me off and I bought the Naish.

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Re: New North Foil's 'PA Carbon Mix 50'

Postby Bletti » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:35 pm

I wonder if it's the same/similar wing construction as the "carbon" takuma/chinese surf foil we've been seeing talked about in another thread?


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