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 Post subject: Airush snowkite
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:47 am
Posts: 16
Hi guys,
Which would be the ideal snowkite from Airush? also which size is recomended for normal riding (very expirienced water kiter and snowboarder)
Please let me know I need to order my snowkite and will only get 1.
I will be snowkiting around Denver.
I have a quiver of C kites and one old school kite 6M shopuld I just use the inflatable 6M?
Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: Airush snowkite
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:22 pm
Posts: 300
Location: montana
First off there is no such thing as a snowkite. I'm all for new kites love em but you have an entire quiver why do you think you need another one? just curious

If its a foil kite that your after do you have any experience with them or are you buying it just cause you think its for snow?

What kinda riding do you like? jumping/freestyling or tooling around traveling sum ground.

Looking at the airush lineup it looks like you have 2 choices. the Crest or the Outback
The outback looks like a super stable beginer/intermediate that only goes to 8M
The crest is a little more of a performance machine with more sizes up to 12.5M

For mountain flying I'd look at the 10meter for most conditions or if you're a heavier person maybe step up to a 12.5

Generally the foils are usually more then the sizing your used too so the 10M may feel like a 12M

Honestly if it were me i'd go for the Crest but i've been flying for a long time so it doesn't matter but yet in the foils i'd pick the highest model they got cause the foils are more gruntier and slower then the inflatables. also seeing the 8M cap on the outback would definetely send me to the Crest for a bit of a larger kite.

Mountain air is much thinner and thus the need for something slightly bigger although mountain winds can really roar sometimes once the gusts really get wild you'll be packing the foil up fast they don't do well no matter what anyone says.


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 Post subject: Re: Airush snowkite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:40 am
Posts: 51
Just curious CrazZ. What is the latest foil kite you have experience with? The modern foils do just fine in gusty conditions. I would argue that modern foils offer greater safety in mountain and gusty conditions because the flag out safety systems actually turns the kite into a flag. An inflatable kite maintains its rigid structure even in safety mode.

I agree that inflatable kites work well on the snow, and if a person already has a quiver they need not run out and buy a quiver of foils, but foils do have some advantages to inflatables on snow and land. Not having to pump up is a no brainer. For touring they allow a kiter to take the kite down and hike or skin to other areas without carrying a pump and then re pumping. I also enjoy being able to take a spare kite with me in either a smaller or larger size in case the wind changes or a kite gets damaged. They are also easier and safer to self launch and land than inflatables.


To claim that there is no such thing as a snow kite is just ridiculous. Certainly any kite will work on snow, but adding one or two foils to your inflatable quiver will enhance your winter kiting experience. If the budget doesn't allow for it, then by all means, go have a great time with whatever you have. If the budget will cover it, get a couple of foils and leave the pump behind, enjoy the tour and the peace of mind of true 100% depower. Snow kites do exist and they have some clear advantages over the inflatables for winter use.

Tony


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 Post subject: Re: Airush snowkite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:11 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:01 pm
Posts: 50
Always take CrayZ's posts with a healthy grain of salt, he's far too vocal about being anti-foil to not be on the payroll of somebody who makes inflatables


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 Post subject: Re: Airush snowkite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:17 pm
Posts: 904
Location: jackson WY
I have had a few sessions where the wind was so gusty I had to walk out because I was flying a foil. The whole time I was walking out my buddy was cruising around on a tube kite! Don't get me wrong I like foils and they have there time but they are NOT as stable as a tube kite! Stick with what you have! Crazz and bad monkey had some good advice! imo waynepjh


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 Post subject: Re: Airush snowkite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:22 pm
Posts: 300
Location: montana
Wow insane How did we get from talking about Airush's new lineup of FOIL kites to this?

bad monkey wrote:
The modern foils do just fine in gusty conditions. I would argue that modern foils offer greater safety in mountain and gusty conditions because the flag out safety systems actually turns the kite into a flag. An inflatable kite maintains its rigid structure even in safety mode.


Maybe small gusts but not bigger ones thats for sure. Inverts are still very common with wicked reinflation causing a bigger concern for safety. The foils have always been set to flag upon safety activation and there still is a potential for pull even on safety seen it a million times try reeling one in on a super windy day i think it would be easier to pullin a marlin outa the sea. Yes inflatables do hold there structure thats why they don't collapse and do weird shit.

bad monkey wrote:
I agree that inflatable kites work well on the snow


So your saying inflatables are snowkites too? well i guess that makes all kites snow kites then. The point i've been trying to make against the stupid marketing hype of so called snowkites that don't exist.

bad monkey wrote:
I also enjoy being able to take a spare kite with me in either a smaller or larger size in case the wind changes or a kite gets damaged. They are also easier and safer to self launch and land than inflatables.


You can still do exactly the same thing with either or kite without trouble if you know what your doing if it truly is pumping that is the real problem with inflatables all give you that out in the wild, but if its anywhere near the car all bets are off.

bad monkey wrote:
Certainly any kite will work on snow, but adding one or two foils to your inflatable quiver will enhance your winter kiting experience. If the budget doesn't allow for it, then by all means, go have a great time with whatever you have. If the budget will cover it, get a couple of foils and leave the pump behind, enjoy the tour and the peace of mind of true 100% depower. Snow kites do exist and they have some clear advantages over the inflatables for winter use.


So once again snowkites is a marketing tool to fool or make people think that they should buy another kite because it has snow at the begining of the word how silly.
I agree leave the pump behind and get a compressor onboard they are cheap and easy to make also you can buy an affordable kite specific compressor that will inflate to exact pressures. By the time you show up at your destination and acess the wind conditions and drink coffee the kite is on the compressor an is fully pumped up. The second both kites are laid out lining up and taking off are exactly equal neither kite is any faster to setup.
If you wanna just open the bag and hope the foil takes off with out any tangles you may or may not have a slight advantage but one tangle can leave you in the parking lot while others are out flying. Not a healthy pre-flight check.

100% depower is not even an option on any kite. 5th line inflatables are the only true 100% depower and even they are not a true 100% and a foil isn't a 100% no kite is. Just marketing once again.

Snowkites do not exist and there is no truly clear advantage of one over the other only prefrences for the rider and buyer.

erratic winds wrote:
Always take CrayZ's posts with a healthy grain of salt, he's far too vocal about being anti-foil to not be on the payroll of somebody who makes inflatables


ANYBODY typing on the kiteforum with bullshit marketing bullets that came out of the brochure is to be taking with a grain of salt. I do not sell kites never have I fly em all tho. I do help when I can but I do not own a company nor do I have one single contract with any company in my possesion. I can tell you one thing the people that always defend companies with clear hype and marketing agendas are in fact on the payroll as they are dealers, distributors, or just brainwashed users that only kite in certain seasons.

Do you really think that someone is going to buy something based on what any of us say? Dealers certainly think that way as do the manufactures.

This sport is expensive new or not your a complete idiot if you take anyones suggestions on buying a $1000+ kite on a whim or by what you read in the magazines, brouchures and especially kiteforums.

Now back to AIRUSH AS THAT WAS THE THREAD.


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 Post subject: Re: Airush snowkite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:22 pm
Posts: 300
Location: montana
Wayne Thanks neither of us are right or wrong you are a clear example of what can be done on any kite. Aside from your defective bar video (which with a defective bar either kite would have suffered the same consequences) i'd say you've cleared up the gliding thing too WOW your high as a kite what is that 200ft.

A kite is a kite they all fly, they all put smiles on our face, and they all give us the adventure we are looking for keep up the extrodinary pics from JH. Looking forward to this season I think we are gonna get way more snow this year then last.


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 Post subject: Re: Airush snowkite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:40 am
Posts: 51
CrazZ, clearly you have some hyper-sensitivity about marketing. You always rant about how snow kites or foils are just a marketing scheme and no one should fall for the hype. You act like you are the great protector of the beginner kiter claiming they should not fall for the evil plan of foil masterminds. You claim they should be very careful following advise from people, then you go on to advise about products with which you have no experience.

I question your experience with foils. I don't think you have really flown a modern foil enough to understand some of the advantages they offer. When I was speaking of 100% depower, I was not referring to pushing the bar out, I'm referring to putting the kite on its safety system. Then the kite is 100% turned off. It is not difficult to real them in either. Maybe you just need some proper instruction on the techniques.

I can't speak to the gusty condition issue as well as Wayne. He has more experience with inflatables in gusty conditions than I do. All I can say is that I feel comfortable on foils even in gusty conditions. Like I mentioned before, I often bring a smaller kite with me in case the wind ramps up. Then I can simply land the kite, roll it up and put it my pack, launch the smaller kite and I'm off again. It would have to be crazy windy to be overwhelmed on a six meter foil.

Again, I want to be clear that I agree, inflatable kites work fine on the snow. I enjoy using them for park and ride sessions. I like the smooth flowing feel that the inflatables offer. I'm just pointing out that foil kites do have certain advantages over inflatables and if people want to enjoy those advantages, then let them do so. I am not promoting a business or any particular brand either. This is not an evil marketing plot waged against the beginner kiters of the world. I'm just trying to offer some real world advise because I do have experience with foil kites.

Tony


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 Post subject: Re: Airush snowkite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:22 pm
Posts: 300
Location: montana
I'm not the great protector of anything or anyone I only want to share that both kites are equally great for many things especially snow unfortunately very few talk about their experiences with inflatables on snow and only add to buy the foil buy the foil cause it says snowkite in the word.

You should be careful from advice on a forum if your not PASA or IKO certified and it comes to safety or someone in the biz of selling kites why should I, you or anyone else believe what they say?
The only good advice anyone can give a beginer is to take a lesson!

The only thing i've ever given advice on is to TRY BEFORE YOU BUY. Other then that you and i can both recite whats on the sales brouchure. what works for one won't for another.

That is marketing and it works great obviously its not a scheme, but it does sell alot of unsuspecting people that are new to snow.
How many people ask this question I have a quiver of inflatables and wanna buy a snowkite kinda like the guy that started this thread. LOTS AND LOTS I only asked the question WHY and then preceded to speak of the kites he was interested about. I didn't bash him only asked why

What are the Giant breakthroughs with these "modern foils" They all have four lines and bridles just like they always did and the safety is pretty much the same. A few face lifts here and there. I've flown foils for years and have witnessed hours and hours of the behaviors of them. I FLY THEM TOO. I'm not bashing them I'm just trying to give the inflatables their fair share of the discussion which is never and problably will never be allowed in the snow discussion.

100% depower doesn't happen it can never happen with a piece of cloth flapping in the wind. I wasn't talking about letting out on the bar no kite depowers even 60% by doing that safeties will get you closer to 100% but neither kite will ever be 100% never.

Obviously this is not a conspiracy theory. I know there is no marketing plot trying to rule the world of snowkiting but when one asks the question

I wanna start snowkiting what should i get? 10 responses a foil snowkite no rhyme no reason no discussion just thats what you do. or the one liners foils for snow inflatables for water. I mean shit who comes up with this stuff.

those that say they are not promoting a business or a brand are hilarious look carefully at the thread starters of half of the threads in this section snow/land and tell me people aren't trying to promote a business or a BRAND. LMAO

Like you Tony I have plenty of experience with both kites and am comfortable speaking about either kite but when the balance is tipped in one direction I gotta ask why?

Its ridculous to say one type of kite is for one type of riding its not true and Snowkites can exist be it a inflatable or a foil as long as your in the snow attached to a kite and well i guess your snowkiting.


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 Post subject: Re: Airush snowkite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:40 am
Posts: 51
I hear what you are saying and I agree that tube kites work well on the snow and people need not run out and buy a quiver of foils to go have a great time on the snow. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree that foils have some nice features that are a bonus for snowkiting.

I do believe that foil kites and tube kites have both come along way in the past few years. I'm sure you would agree that the tube kites have progressed markedly in safety, range and just overall enjoyment of use. Foils have also progressed offering more safety, range and they are just more fun than their predecessors from even 3 or 4 years ago.

There is a lot of marketing hype with all products and I agree that a forum is no place for promoting brands or personal businesses as some people shamelessly do. Sharing opinions about styles and brands is one thing, but promotion is another issue entirely. Finally we agree 100% about one issue.

Tony


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