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 Post subject: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:29 pm 
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Has anyone tried flying a big kite by anchoring themselves to the ground via the kiting harness and/or a rock climbing harness? Eg using an, ice screw, screw in ground stake etc...

Specifically I'm thinking about a kite that attaches to the harness via chicken loop, then anchoring the harness to the ground. Would this put too much stress on the kite if it can't actually pull? Would it limit the mobility of the flyer too much?

Just trying to explore options for preventing a smaller kiter from being lifted or dragged while they make the transition from trainer to big kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:34 pm 
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If you want to seriously injure yourself, go ahead.



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Gunnar


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 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:53 pm 
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Yeah I can see where having a really long tether and an actual parasail would be problematic.

I'm talking about using a tether that is only slightly longer than the distance between the ground and one's waist, keeping it taut at all times, as one would anchor themselves during a belay.


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 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:56 pm 
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Yah I'm thinking that is a bad idea, especially if your tether breaks during a gust.... you will get picked up, the lines will stretch, the tether breaks or the ice pick gives way and you will get catapulted into the air with fully loaded lines, if you are lucky your ice screw doesn't impale you but instead hits the kite and puts a big ass gash in it so that it drops you before you end up in Kansas.


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 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:58 pm 
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or you simply get your foot wrapped up in the tether, kite powers up as you loose control, result... broken foot or leg?


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 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:48 pm 
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gmb13 wrote:
If you want to seriously injure yourself, go ahead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H1mFYs-zbc

--
Gunnar


Thanks for posting this Gunnar, you will for sure be saving someone's neck. Truly a great foilkite design research project.


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 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 pm 
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Yeah good points indeed. I have a climbing background and have seen the things you mention, that's why I'm thinking about this. (What I would do in a climbing situation if being yanked off my feet and dragged was a possibility.)

Very much would depend on the dynamic forces (shock load) introduced by a kite. (Anyone got any data on this? Would be interesting to know, although I doubt it's any greater than the holding strength of an ice screw, carabiner and webbing.)


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 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:16 am 
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How many people have to say it: ITS A BAD IDEA!

There was a video of somebody teaching beginners the way you described 7 or 8 years ago. The beginner looped the kite was picked up 2 or three feet and slammed into the ground hard repeatedly until the kite crashed. There are many many videos of people doing variations of tethered flying where the tether or more likely kite breaks resulting in a fall.

The problem is that kite speed generates line tension. Line tension increases kite speed. The fact that you get dragged downwind a little when you fly the kite in the powerzone deep is good negative feedback that reduces line tension, kite speed and power. Line tension and kite power are normally limited by your weight or the edge you can hold. If you tether the kite, with or without a person in between, you can generate forces far far greater than that if you just have the kiter fly the kite.

You express concern about a beginner getting lofted. Just don't start overpowered. You express concern about being dragged downwind. No big deal. Its called scudding and its a great way for a beginner to learn how to generate power with a traction kite, and its a great way to learn the balance you need to stand on a board with a kite. If anything, just hold the beginners harness for a minute when launching, but even then if they are dragged down wind a little it slacks the lines and reduces power, really thats the best outcome if they make a pilot error. Also, this is a good time to teach them when to drop the bar.

A number of people here have taught children. My 9 y/o daughter who is 55 pounds flies 4 and 6 meter kites on the buggy and ATB. For the reasons stated above, I don't even like people to hold her harness, because then the kite will generate more power than she would have if she were flying alone. I would never ever consider a tether.

Jake


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 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:31 am 
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supertux1 wrote:
Very much would depend on the dynamic forces (shock load) introduced by a kite. (Anyone got any data on this? Would be interesting to know, although I doubt it's any greater than the holding strength of an ice screw, carabiner and webbing.)


Its certainly more than the 600lb test of your flying lines. For an interesting read, look up the max/min problem by Peter Lynn on google. You might also look for (very) old threads that contain theoretical discussions on the minimum line strength needed. This might have occurred in Yahoo groups before Kiteforum. Its out there somewhere. It is the rider and the edge that determine minimum line strength, not the kite's power.


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 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:41 am 
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Here's another good reason not too :lol: the stupid is overwhelming



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