*


All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:42 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 29176
Location: World (KF Admin)
just don't do it. Go to a shallow area, launch the kite in not too strong wind (know your limits!) and go from there...


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:10 am 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:14 am
Posts: 188
jakemoore wrote:
How many people have to say it: ITS A BAD IDEA!

There was a video of somebody teaching beginners the way you described 7 or 8 years ago. The beginner looped the kite was picked up 2 or three feet and slammed into the ground hard repeatedly until the kite crashed. There are many many videos of people doing variations of tethered flying where the tether or more likely kite breaks resulting in a fall.

The problem is that kite speed generates line tension. Line tension increases kite speed. The fact that you get dragged downwind a little when you fly the kite in the powerzone deep is good negative feedback that reduces line tension, kite speed and power. Line tension and kite power are normally limited by your weight or the edge you can hold. If you tether the kite, with or without a person in between, you can generate forces far far greater than that if you just have the kiter fly the kite.

You express concern about a beginner getting lofted. Just don't start overpowered. You express concern about being dragged downwind. No big deal. Its called scudding and its a great way for a beginner to learn how to generate power with a traction kite, and its a great way to learn the balance you need to stand on a board with a kite. If anything, just hold the beginners harness for a minute when launching, but even then if they are dragged down wind a little it slacks the lines and reduces power, really thats the best outcome if they make a pilot error. Also, this is a good time to teach them when to drop the bar.

A number of people here have taught children. My 9 y/o daughter who is 55 pounds flies 4 and 6 meter kites on the buggy and ATB. For the reasons stated above, I don't even like people to hold her harness, because then the kite will generate more power than she would have if she were flying alone. I would never ever consider a tether.

Jake


This is a fantastic explanation Mr Tux, this man knows what he's talking about and he put a lot of experience and thought into his response. Thanks Jake Moore. The real art of kiting is in attaining the downwind momentum (speed) and then using your board's edge and your body to convert that to upwind, like a tether that can be tightened or released. Tethering off? Just get a rubber band, pull back and.....twang! Medic! Dont be stupid.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:35 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2590
Location: Mauritius, waterman since 1960
Done it a few years back and can only advise you to listen to everyone here: don't do it.
I used a sea anchor and long line to it. Did the superman through the window thing, and had a blast, but also had the biggest scare of my life when things went pearshaped.
On land it would have been fatal.
Nico


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:28 am 
Offline
Medium Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 152
Location: Okinawa, Japan
Anchored while flying big kite...never thought of that....hmmm...


Darwins award :rollgrin:


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:29 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:48 pm
Posts: 346
just make sure when you do it somebody is filming so there is proof of your STUPIDITY :jump:


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:42 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:53 pm
Posts: 910
Nico wrote:
Done it a few years back and can only advise you to listen to everyone here: don't do it.
I used a sea anchor and long line to it. Did the superman through the window thing, and had a blast, but also had the biggest scare of my life when things went pearshaped.
On land it would have been fatal.
Nico



Hey...you can't get away with that brief description...Out with it! Details...gorey details...we want details!

Was it kind of like: "You can't fly a kite in a buffalo herd"?


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:00 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:35 pm
Posts: 1539
Location: Southwestern Ontario
It amazes me the shit people will try... I mean how could you not foresee the dangers involved in doing this?
Hey everybody, watch me tether myself to a truck and a tree... go truck go!

WTF do you think will happen?


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:16 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:04 am
Posts: 101
Location: UK
supertux1 wrote:
Has anyone tried flying a big kite by anchoring themselves to the ground via the kiting harness and/or a rock climbing harness? Eg using an, ice screw, screw in ground stake etc...

Specifically I'm thinking about a kite that attaches to the harness via chicken loop, then anchoring the harness to the ground. Would this put too much stress on the kite if it can't actually pull? Would it limit the mobility of the flyer too much?

Just trying to explore options for preventing a smaller kiter from being lifted or dragged while they make the transition from trainer to big kite.

this is what will happen to you if you are lucky, if you are not lucky you will die!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S96rv-zFQw



Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:22 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 414
Location: ontario
oh my freakin god! I've seen some crazy kite falls, but this one takes the cake. How high was that kid...? 30 or 40 feet? How do people think this stuff through? Like as the car is taking off I might realize that this was gonna hurt. Anyone know what shape this kid is in?

Some locals around my area did this and posted it on their school site. It was a carefully planned situation but very experienced people but still with a kite there is always the unknown if something goes wrong. Didn't Neil Hutcheson do this first behind a boat and got really messed up.

If it ain't windy, get another hobby.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Anchored while flying big kite for the first time?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:42 pm 
Offline
Rare Poster

Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:27 am
Posts: 10
windrupted wrote:
jakemoore wrote:
How many people have to say it: ITS A BAD IDEA!

There was a video of somebody teaching beginners the way you described 7 or 8 years ago. The beginner looped the kite was picked up 2 or three feet and slammed into the ground hard repeatedly until the kite crashed. There are many many videos of people doing variations of tethered flying where the tether or more likely kite breaks resulting in a fall.

The problem is that kite speed generates line tension. Line tension increases kite speed. The fact that you get dragged downwind a little when you fly the kite in the powerzone deep is good negative feedback that reduces line tension, kite speed and power. Line tension and kite power are normally limited by your weight or the edge you can hold. If you tether the kite, with or without a person in between, you can generate forces far far greater than that if you just have the kiter fly the kite.

You express concern about a beginner getting lofted. Just don't start overpowered. You express concern about being dragged downwind. No big deal. Its called scudding and its a great way for a beginner to learn how to generate power with a traction kite, and its a great way to learn the balance you need to stand on a board with a kite. If anything, just hold the beginners harness for a minute when launching, but even then if they are dragged down wind a little it slacks the lines and reduces power, really thats the best outcome if they make a pilot error. Also, this is a good time to teach them when to drop the bar.

A number of people here have taught children. My 9 y/o daughter who is 55 pounds flies 4 and 6 meter kites on the buggy and ATB. For the reasons stated above, I don't even like people to hold her harness, because then the kite will generate more power than she would have if she were flying alone. I would never ever consider a tether.

Jake


This is a fantastic explanation Mr Tux, this man knows what he's talking about and he put a lot of experience and thought into his response. Thanks Jake Moore. The real art of kiting is in attaining the downwind momentum (speed) and then using your board's edge and your body to convert that to upwind, like a tether that can be tightened or released. Tethering off? Just get a rubber band, pull back and.....twang! Medic! Dont be stupid.


Yeah for the record I'm not suggesting doing what has been demonstrated in these videos, which is making the fatal mistake of using a tether that allows the kiter to be lifted and dropped several feet. I am simply wondering if it is at all feasible to make it safe for the kiter and kite to be set up in such a way that there is no chance that they can be pulled into a position they do not want to be in if they mistakenly put the kite somewhere they shouldn't.

Perhaps 'tether' is the wrong word. Would it be easier to say that instead of a 'tether', that we have a pair of 500 pound guys holding on to the kiter and not letting go? ('Anchor') Jake mentioned holding his daughter while she launched, that is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Maybe it stresses the lines too much (if overpowered), makes the kite go faster and pull harder than it normally would, and those are definitely valid points, and some of the things that would have to be taken into consideration if the kiter wants this kind of security.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: splash09 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group