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 Post subject: Re: Gliding aspect of snowkiting
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Location: montana
Quote:
If you just pump the kite from side to side, you will have no control and may stall and fall.


This is what most people see and think of gliding but your brake and acceleration or controlled pendulm effect is what really works. :thumb:

(by the way a few years ago I tried gliding by keeping it up back an forth and the kite let me down from 15 feet my knee hurt for 2 months after that fell straight down)


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 Post subject: Re: Gliding aspect of snowkiting
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:22 pm 
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aircatcher wrote:
Billy B. wrote:
I know what he is saying. After you take off there are two ways you can move the kite. One stroke in the case of the skyline hill and the wind direction in that vid is from the zenith to 11 in the case of the the hill at skyline that stroke brings the kiter down the hill and speeds them up. this is the acceleration stroke and it allows the kiter to build speed and move down the hill..

The stroke from 11 to 1 is then the braking stroke and allows the kiter to slow their speed while gaining lift and staying airborn this is the braking stroke.. the combo of the two are what allows the kiter to pick their speed, how high they are and where they land by controling their flight direction by how much they make one or the other stroke...

If you just pump the kite from side to side, you will have no control and may stall and fall.

Start little fly low then than to go higher...

He was also saying that kitelooping is an advanced technique to come down (@ 1:45 in the video), which you and your friend Wayne was strongly protesting in "advanced technique to bail out in air loft" thread,maybe you guys can learn "somethin" from this BB glide master since your profile said that ur "always open" for learnin.
Don't want to make it noisy,but this is a strong confirmation from a snow kite glide master said that proper likelooping is an advanced technique to come down.Unless you guys stubbornly refuse to know this fact or probably already did that but pretend to misguide the world for whatever agenda you have behind since Wayne said that he used death spiral to come down also. (spiral down is actually a series kiteloops or equivalent to kiteloops in more extreme way because of the G you generated or endured ,FYI :allbegood: )
Shall we conclude this argument?


Air chatcher I am indead the guy in the video. I am also the guy in lots of gliding vids since we have been flying for a loung time..Be we I mean Wayne and I

I will end this soon for you, Latley I have been using kiteloops to climb with while airborn.

I did 11 loops while climbing up the hill in the air. 2 one way then 2 the other intill i landed, all of the loops made lift and I used this lift to climb the hill and had to work very hard to come down, I throw the first loop very very very high and just climb up the hill with more.
11 is my personal best, but five or six is normal, for me right now. as soon as I capture this on video it sould settle the "debate" you have been trying to win...

Kite loops in a updraft will make you climb I have done this and others have watched it...Once we film it then you can explain to me what you think....and why I am not coming down as you think I should....I could have kept climbing by using kiteloops , but I was in danger of being blown over the top and getting hurt so I used the kite outside the window to come down just as Wayne and I have argueed, Again we are not quessing about this stuff we have tried it and are speaking from first hand experence,

Telling other kiters they should throw loops to come down if they are caught in a updraft is wroung and may hurt some one who panics and trys to use your false ideas to "save" them selves. Kite loops in a updraft while gain hight I know this from doing it.... Unless you have first had experance of doing multipal loops in rising air on purpose, please stop quessing based on your unproven hypothesis it is dangerous to the community.

Throwing a loop or three at the end of a short flight is much different then using loops in rising air, in the vid I mention using a loop to control you landing my providing power to slow your decent and as a large "braking" stroke before landing, not to come down from flight or escape out of rising air which is what you are claiming, they are two different things.

Using Kite loops to slow your decent when in still or calmer air like at the bottom of a hill or after jumping off a crane is much different then using kite loops to "escape out of a airloftingf" or updraft. as you are suggesting.... Then again I am only sharing what I have learned while using many kiteloops in a row in updrafts to gain lift....

BB


Last edited by Billy B. on Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gliding aspect of snowkiting
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Location: montana
Billy that makes perfect sense to me same as in a glider spin er to go up spin er to come down.

The problem with a loft is strong very strong lift on the sides an outa the lift is strong very strong sink. looping to come down in no lift is scrubing what little canopy you have making you come down even faster and if the timing isnt right it will send you down with the inertia you created with the loop to put you on the ground even harder.

Advanced or not how would anyone practice or prepare for such a life threatning ride? even you guys doing 100 and up controlled might get scared in a real deal lofting cause you know what no air on a wing means drop like a rock.

And like you said billy what would happen if you came outta the lift zone on the hill and got in the rotor or the sink you already know and knew it was a guaranteed injury.

OT but kinda relevant heres a poor soul that did nothing wrong and was in terrible conditions one or two feet either way he wouldn't be here. In the Video you can see the inertia that is created by the looping of the wing one swing the wrong way would have been waaaayyyy different I'd suspect a loft to be similar outta control experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Gliding aspect of snowkiting
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:58 pm 
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Craz Z wrote:
Billy that makes perfect sense to me same as in a glider spin er to go up

Advanced or not how would anyone practice or prepare for such a life threatning ride? even you guys doing 100 and up controlled might get scared in a real deal lofting cause you know what no air on a wing means drop like a rock.

And like you said billy what would happen if you came outta the lift zone on the hill and got in the rotor or the sink you already know and knew it was a guaranteed injury.


Oh my Butt hole was very small after loop 7 or 8 while climbing with loops. I was very high and knew I need to move out of the lift zone... but by just enough to still have enough lift to decend saftley....There was lots of controlled movement with the kite that got me down but it was a scarey moment at time!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Gliding aspect of snowkiting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:22 am 
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Billy, could you please Talk more about the Safety predautions you guys are Talking when gliding? You mentioned some Basics in the video, but also that there is Lots more.


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 Post subject: Re: Gliding aspect of snowkiting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:51 pm 
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dwt wrote:
Billy, could you please Talk more about the Safety predautions you guys are Talking when gliding? You mentioned some Basics in the video, but also that there is Lots more.


Gear Gear and gear.

It's important to have good gear and inspect it always. You could have the best skills on the planet but if the gear fails so do you. There are no back ups and only going as high as you are willing to fall from is the guidline. It is easy to get "carried away" and go higher but staying with in your personal comfort zone is key. I fly on new kites with little or no repairs, and I try and use new bars and lines

We try to back up anything we can. I will often Sling to my Chicken Line to take the Chicken loop out ot the system, I use a harness with leg loop ad make sure the Harness hook is backed up to them, some guyus have double lined, I don't.

I used to watch Alex Peterson string newlines and or double check his old lines all the time I try to look at all my lines, rigging and connection points. When I first start Climbing I do loops in both direction while edgeing and changing direction hard, so as to "shock load" the kite and rigging I think there is more pull and stress to my gear then, then while flying with it, this (in my mind) gives my gear a final check.

So far the falures I am aware of have been bars and leader lines failing so I try and insure all that stuff is top notch. Chasta whould run new lines all the time but he had a budget for them, most folks don't. I have a bar that is just for flying and use it for such. If I am covering distance I will use another bar and may still fly off it but I am carful to still check them out.

I think the most important saftey step is training and knowledge. I witness "hot shit" kiters watch us fly for a few laps then go out them selves give it a try and get worked. Falling from the sky and getting hurt. most limp around the parking area after and try and act like it was no big deal... We all are scared some one is going to hurt very bad this way., It is for sure the worst thing one can do, the kiters that come and ask questions and learn to Crawl, then walk, and run get it right and have a great safe time. I can ussally get Great pro level kiters flying in a couple of hours, and most avarage guys take a few days.

It is so importnt to learn the proper take off, then kite movements then landing. Learning to go very high in between thoose steps takes practice but it is not unuasal for a some one trying to teach themselves to drop from 25 plus feet to the snow by making one wroung move.

I was glad that kitesites did this video, for years many off us have been very quiet about gliding, our kites are just not made to fly, Speed wings and paragliders are, and we all thought that is the gear you should be flying with. But more and more people are trying and learning, it is amazing to go just a few feet high and fly a couple hundred yards down a hill. I watch some of the local Utah crew just do flying laps all day long. Evey time I am at a spot that other kiters can see people flying I answer a ton of questions, so it seem as though the best course of action was to share what we know with everyone to try and make it safe.

Flying high with your kite could go wrong and you could get very hurt, don't do it........

But if you really can't help yourslves because it is just so much fun, Please be as safe as possible and learn frome a skilled flyer....

BB


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 Post subject: Re: Gliding aspect of snowkiting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Location: Kalispell, MT
Just glide like me and you'll be perfectly safe-I barely leave the ground. :D

http://vimeo.com/34491437

[vimeo]http://vimeo.com/34491437[/vimeo]

How come I can't get the Vimeo player to show up in the post?

bob


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 Post subject: Re: Gliding aspect of snowkiting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Hi Billy,

many thanks for sharing that information. As I think it will help me immensely when I get ready to try this (though probably not this year).

I really hope that you and other Gliders will share more info on the type of safeties you use and why you chose them. Photos welcome. :-)

Oh and the "start small" safety really resonates with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Gliding aspect of snowkiting
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:54 am 
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I think with gliding and safety one should consider their ability and with equipment one should have a model or instructor and "they should be familiar with your equipment" to tell you what your doing right and wrong also with equipment I can say its huge factor in the type of kite your using. Some kites which are extremely stable for a beginner may not be the best for gliding and doing loops. The kites that are good for a beginner in learning how to kite do not loop as fast so for a beginner doing a loop with that type of kite will slam you right back into the mountain if your not at the right height.
Things you will want to think about is what can break: kite, lines, harness, spreader bar
Spreader Bar - back that up with cheap climbing harness and put carabeaner thru your chicken loop.
Harness I would recomend some type of seat harness when your staying in the air for a long period of time its nice not to have a hard time breathing because your harness keeps creaping up over your lungs and making it hard to breath. Also with your harness I like a beefy one in the back because of the ablity of the harness to absorb the beating you will get when your learning how to glide. Even the best mess up from time to time.
Hey Billy B I think it would be good for you to go over skill sets that people should have before gliding hate to give you home work but I think that would be a better assignment for you than me. Also what size kite to use for gliding is their a kite too small? What would you or Wayne recommend.
Conditioning kiting is hard on your body and your core should be in good shape its nice to be able to walk away from a good crash because your body is in condition you will need this when gliding!
One other thing that I have found invaluable for me was to video the camera does not lie for better and for worse. Keep safe people and good luck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8KDRRuTvG0


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