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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for long expeditions?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:27 pm
Posts: 166
Location: montreal south shore
Quote:
Disaster waiting to happen..... people gave you info on their leasure kite equipment, you'll be towing stuff. Doing XC. That's different. And you are taking all the info from a forum, that's BAD :nono:.

Btw.: Flysurfer might need preinflation in low wind and it's more sensitive than open-cells, IMHO it's not a good bet.


disaster :lol: you must be kidding. Speed 3 delux edition has plenty of grunt to pull weight around.
If you are going to try to kite in 3 knts preinflation could be used to get the 21m up and going.But by personal experience you don't need to.

And those people that gave there opinion on leisure kite equipment just might be right.. :idea:

ps..What would suggest lei, in -20 must be fun when the valve freezes and stuck open. That could be disaster.

hi skydive I have a sled just like this one ( pelican ice sled). It's great for pulling stuff around and the price is right. I've seen guys connecting 2 sleds side by side to give more stability for when it get's rough.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/5/SportsRec/Fishing/IceFishing/PRD~0788265P/Pelican+Snow+Trek+60/CROSSSELL~0789002%20Pelican%2BIce%2BFishing%2BSled%2BCover.jsp?locale=en


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for long expeditions?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:16 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Sweden
Hi,
My current combo for tour kiting is Access 6m for hard wind, Manta 10m for medium wind and Yakuza 14m for light wind. Here the Yakuza 14m:

Image

Image

The classic tool for polar crossings is not kite, but skisail. It is still used for fast polar crossings, e.g. at the world's fastest over 100km (subject to verification). I have a small skisail for very hard wind, but nowadays I mostly use a small Access instead, just because it is fun. But the skisail is probably more practical in hard wind than the kite.

Some fast polar kiters use only fixed bridle kites and no depower kites (e.g. for going from the south pole to the coast in 5 days).

Open cell depower foils (Ozone) are popular for polar crossings , but also closed cell foils are becoming popular (Flysurfer).


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for long expeditions?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:51 am
Posts: 155
Cray wrote:
Don't use forum information, people pimp their own gear/snow experiances. Ask people who'd done it


Agreed. Find someone who have made expeditions in a conditions that are similar to your expedition. They will no better than us. Even I have followed closely one expedition I was not there in a group that made it. I just know what we discussed and what we studied before the expedition and then got the feedback after that.

skydive wrote:
So... I´ve got recommended Flysurfer Speed 3 21m for superlight conditions, Ozone Frenzy 11 and 7m.
What do you think about that combo?


I would prefer Ozone Access over Frenzy in an expedition. You do not need a kite that generates lift for freestyle tricks like Frenzy does. You need a steady kite that is easier to use to pull a sled without a sudden lift when you do not want it.

Yakuza is for sure a great kite. If you are more familiar with bar than with handles you may want to limit the new things. For sure it would take like an hour to learn to fly a kite with handles but if you are using other kites on a trip with bar it could be good to have the same control with all kites. Choose the on method that you can count your life on it.

The Greenland expedition I followed closely did use Access kites. There was a discussion to use Manta but finally the decision went to Access which worked great. Unfortunately production of Manta is discontinued.

We could have a lot of discussion if closed cell or open cell is the best but they both have good and not so good features. The baseline is that what you will feel more familiar to use after you have tried those.

Personally I use a different brand and model nowadays but I know that those kites work in the conditions that you are heading.

seanflex wrote:
I have a sled just like this one ( pelican ice sled). It's great for pulling stuff around and the price is right. I've seen guys connecting 2 sleds side by side to give more stability for when it get's rough.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/5/SportsRec/Fishing/IceFishing/PRD~0788265P/Pelican+Snow+Trek+60/CROSSSELL~0789002%20Pelican%2BIce%2BFishing%2BSled%2BCover.jsp?locale=en


I would not count on 70$ sled to go for thousands of kilometers in the middle of icy landscape and hundreds of kilometers from a closest sign of any civilization. This kind of sled will work fine in a weekend cruises if you tow something but to take it for couple of months on ice is a bit different case. There is a reason why that sled is cheap and why the sleds made for expeditions cost a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for long expeditions?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:43 pm
Posts: 64
Location: North Conway New Hampshire USA
Not to muddy the waters further but there's also Paraski Flex as an option.

Light weight, packable, SUPER SIMPLE and they seem to work very very well. I've never flown one but I've seen them around and they fly them a lot North of the border.

I forget to take fixed bridles into consideration. Espescially for light winds they may be the best choice if the wind is relatively smooth. The knee jerk reaction for light wind WOC is Speed 21m. I'm not convinced that would be the best option especially when there are smaller lighter options in fixed bridle range.

I apologize for my comment earlier. I missread the original post and thought you guys were trying to pull this off THIS SPRING. hehehee.

In regards to the number of kites, unless there is a huge difference in the amount of weight each of you are going to be hauling (kite and gear combined) I imagine you will have some kite overlap. Especially in light winds where one kite can get rider A moving but the next one down doesn't stand a chance.

Does that make sense?


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for long expeditions?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:15 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Norway
I crossed Greenland back in 2009 and may have some advises for you. Based on the distance (2500 km) I assume you will be starting in south near Narsaq. If so you will have bad winds until you get to Dye2. From there you will normally get good winds from SE. (Please note that even though the distance from start to Dye2 is only about 1/6 of the trip, it will most likely take as much time as the rest of the distance. If you want nice winds and kiting every day you should consider starting close to Dye2 and head north to Quaanaaq.)

Which kite to bring is a matter of taste and experience. Personally I would bring the following: A large kite (14 m2) on handles with 60 m lines (pulls like a train), a pretty large depower foil kite (about 12 m2 Frenzy or similar) or a 9 m2 kite on handles, a small depower foil (access or similar - about 7 m2). You may consider bringing a 6-8 m2 parawing (skisail) as well for the howling days.Also, bring some line extensions so you can extend your lines to 40-50 m.

Forget about inflatebals. They are too heavy and lacks all of the abilities you want from an expedition kite. (I use C Switchblades for play but not for long trips). Flysurfers are good, especially if you are kiting in different terrain where wind varies. The huge wind range is nice, but IMO you don't need that in the flat terrain on Greenland. (I have a FS Speed 15 dlx. and use it a lot, but wouldn't bring in to Greenland.)

You should also have in mind that you will be spending a lot of hours behind the kite. Kites with handles are more relaxing to ride for long distances than kite with bars. They are also more effective pr m2 and cheaper. Btw, you will find the wind completely gust-free.

Since the dominant wind direction is SE and you are going N, the light wind machine on handles may be a low AR kite. You can then park it in the window and relax and enjoy the ride. A high AR kite may require some more active flying. We used a low AR kite as the light wind machine.

Since the time consuming fuck-ups normally occurs when landing/launching the kite, you may consider taking fewer and longer breaks than the "normal" 10 min every hour. We did 3 h kiting and 30 min breaks.

I wouldn't plan on walking when there is no wind. Your sledge will be heavy (about 80 kg if you pack light). The distance you walk in one day can be covered kiting in 20 min the next. Relax and read a book when there is no wind. Also, learn how to kite in very light winds :D

Training on water will probably not be very relevant. You should practice as much as possible on snow with the kites you plan to use with a heavy sledge. Everyone makes mistakes. If you do them while training you learn from then and know how to avoid or handle them later on Greenland when nobody can help you. Therefore, realistic training is important. The heavy sledge takes some time to get used to and your upwind abilities will suck :-)

Good luck. The trip is fantastic!

EDIT: About the sledges: Most teams use Paris Company Expedition Sled and mount two as catamarans. (like on the picture posted by vindman). They don't flip if mounted like that and are well tested. If you google it you will find they sell for USD 29 :D


Last edited by Hugo H on Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for long expeditions?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:15 pm
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Location: Norway
vindman wrote:
Hi,
My current combo for tour kiting is Access 6m for hard wind, Manta 10m for medium wind and Yakuza 14m for light wind.

...

The classic tool for polar crossings is not kite, but skisail. It is still used for fast polar crossings, e.g. at the world's fastest over 100km (subject to verification).


I think your kite como is very good for a long expedition, vindman.

However, I couldn't resist commenting on the "record" you linked to. 100 km in 7,5 h is probably nothing more than most kiters do when playing in the snow in the weekends. To put it in perspective; In 2010 Eric McNair-Landry and Sebastian Copeland set a record of kiting 595 km (straight line between camps) in 24 h. That means they did every 100 km in 4 hours, except they did it 6 times in a row :D

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/rec ... -24-hours/


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for long expeditions?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:16 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Sweden
Hugo: Very interesting to read about your experiences and the good equipment recommendations. Regarding the "record"; yes, after I posted the reply, I realized that the "record" is nothing. The other link I referred to is where Ronny Finsås kited more than 500 km in less than 24 hours, which is way faster than the other "record".


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for long expeditions?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:06 am
Posts: 14
Quote:
My current combo for tour kiting is Access 6m for hard wind, Manta 10m for medium wind and Yakuza 14m for light wind. Here the Yakuza 14m:


This advice sounds good.

Fixed bridle like Yakuza 14m can easily beat any Flysurfer and any other depowerable kite in extra light winds, suppose the wind is not too gusty.

in changing winds Flysurfer speed will outperform any open cell foil cause it has extreme wind range.


Access 6m is great for strong winds (10 m/s and more ), and Manta 10m or Frenzy 9m or 11m for medium winds.

I would maybe consider snowbuggy, it could save your leg muscles and extend driving range.

Haugastol


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for long expeditions?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:32 pm
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I would use Hq Montana 7 14or12m - 7m and Apex 3m





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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for long expeditions?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:52 am
Posts: 272
Location: Norfolk, UK
Fantastic looking expedition btw. Lots of good advice here from people who've done it before... The only thing I would add is that kite preferences are often very personal so I think you should get some demo's from somewhere that does a range of open / closed cell kites. One example below (never used them but they've got a good site and are enthusiasts...)

http://www.pbkiteboarding.com/

There's one or two frozen lakes in Canada at this time of year too... :-)


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