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Light wind snowkite Ozone Chrono 18m vs FS Speed 3/4

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mr moon
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Light wind snowkite Ozone Chrono 18m vs FS Speed 3/4

Postby mr moon » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:31 pm

Hello!
They are very different in AR and wing profile..
The Chrono seems to be more of a race kite and buggy kite than a snow kite, or am I wrong??
I need the ultimate free ride light wind kite to use primarily on snowed mountains.
Wing stability, gust management, depower and turns are all key features for my choice.
Size wise looking into 18 Chrono and 18/21 Speed.
Haven't tried either of them yet and would like to hear some opinions.
Cheers!

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Re: Light wind snowkite Ozone Chrono 18m vs FS Speed 3/4

Postby Dave_5280 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:09 pm

"Wing stability, gust management, depower and turns are all key features for my choice." - Then I would take a second look at Ozone's Frenzy or Summit models in the bigger sizes in light wind versions, especially if you don't plan to use the kite on the water. Hard to beat those open cell kites on snow from Ozone.

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Re: Light wind snowkite Ozone Chrono 18m vs FS Speed 3/4

Postby mr moon » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:13 pm

Dave_5280 wrote:"Wing stability, gust management, depower and turns are all key features for my choice." - Then I would take a second look at Ozone's Frenzy or Summit models in the bigger sizes in light wind versions, especially if you don't plan to use the kite on the water. Hard to beat those open cell kites on snow from Ozone.
Yes I know buddy, I fly Frenzys in fact up to biggest size (13m). I just need to cover the low end for light wind days on the mountain without risking to be stranded in deep pow :wink:
Summit goes up to 15m but I need more than that.. that's why I'm looking at the Chrono 18m or FS Speed..

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Re: Light wind snowkite Ozone Chrono 18m vs FS Speed 3/4

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:44 pm

If I may, I think you're comparing apples, to oranges to bananas.

The Speed is a lower AR wing with more of a freestyle nature compared to the near thoroughbred race design of the Chrono. The Frenzy, even more of a departure from both the Speed 4 and Chrono. The 13m Frenzy is less of a light wind rig and more a kite for a "Clydesdale" class rider. The jump from the 15m Frenzy to the 18m Chrono is considerable.

The Chrono is a high performance race style kite. We have a 15m in our demo fleet and will have the 18m in soon although we questioned if it was even needed based on how the 15m flies and pulls in wind that you can't feel even on your face.

The 15m in the limited flying time I've had on it so far is an unbelievable efficient machine. It build apparent better than any kite I've ever seen apart from maybe some Elf models and those have a much narrower wind range. It is easily better at building apparent than any of the previous Speeds have been but with much more grunt. Which for me at 200# the Speeds always seemed lacking. We will hopefully get a chance to do a side by side comparison with the Chrono, Speed and in the same vein HQ Matrixx 2 this winter.

The Speed is obviously and incredible kite. Flysurfer has dominated to light wind realm with those kites for ages and anyone who's flown them will attest to how good the kites are. Me personally I'm a fan of the 19m Psycho 4 SA DLX for light wind because I like maneuverability as well as light wind ability. And the Psycho holds it's own against the Speeds but you have to work it. This said the 15m Chrono, is way beyond the 19m P4 DLX in light wind performance.

The Summit 15m in UL might be a good option. Though not nearly as good in light wind as the Chrono, not even the 15m but it will be more versatile and more user friendly. Not as good in light wind as a 18m Speed 4 but pretty good.

As I mentioned another option would be the Matrixx 2. We found the Matrixx 1 to be a damn good kite in light winds even with 15m being the largest and being made of standard rip stop vs. UL. We always though they should make it in a UL version or go up to 18m. They did both.

This year the Matrixx 2 comes in UL 20d lightweight and is offered in an 18m. More of a direct competitor to the Speed 4 than the Chrono. Really the Chrono is in a different class than any of the other kites we've discussed so far. The Matrixx 2 is a similar AR and design philosophy but at a lower price point.

I guess the question comes down to several factors. How light a wind do you want to ride in? What's your experience level? (The Chrono, good for advanced riders tough for most others) What do you want to do with the kite i.e. where do you want to ride? (snow/water/dirt) What's your riding style? And what's your budget?

There's another kite in the Flysurfer option that I'm not able to discuss until they do the new release on the 1st. We don't have all the details yet on that one.

Light wind kites are a tough call. Sucks that light wind kiting is also the most expensive. Any of the kites I've listed will add to your riding days but you might get lonely being the only one riding while everyone else watches. :D
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Re: Light wind snowkite Ozone Chrono 18m vs FS Speed 3/4

Postby plummet » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:57 pm

Read my write up on the speed4 12m v chrono.

viewtopic.php?t=2386795&p=862326

In short for gusty conditions the speed will be far better. For efficiency and upwind the chrono.... Super gusty my choice would be the speed.

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Re: Light wind snowkite Ozone Chrono 18m vs FS Speed 3/4

Postby matthepp » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:23 pm

Hey mr moon, where do you kite?
I kite in SW Colorado with variable mountain wind. I used to have a 19m Psycho 4 and I hated it for shifty winds. Those foils are great and incredibly efficient in good clean wind. The Psycho 4 would stall one minute in a lull then pull me hard downwind in a gust. It got dubbed "the giant pillowcase."
I switched to a 15m 4 strut LEI that likes to stay in the air. For me, it deals way better with the junk. I can loop it quick all day to keep it in the air. And upwind is a generally lot easier on snow, especially if you're in upslope wind conditions. My opinion is that I don't need a race kite for mountain wind.
I can remember one lightwind day last year when a friend and I were cruising all over while flying 15-17m LEIs, meanwhile a FS flier just dealt with one lull-induced canopy collapse after another.

Note: I do like my 11m Frenzy when it's single digits or colder. But it's got to be blowing pretty hard to feel powered up.

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Re: Light wind snowkite Ozone Chrono 18m vs FS Speed 3/4

Postby mr moon » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:22 am

Hardwater Kiter wrote:If I may, I think you're comparing apples, to oranges to bananas.

The Speed is a lower AR wing with more of a freestyle nature compared to the near thoroughbred race design of the Chrono. The Frenzy, even more of a departure from both the Speed 4 and Chrono. The 13m Frenzy is less of a light wind rig and more a kite for a "Clydesdale" class rider. The jump from the 15m Frenzy to the 18m Chrono is considerable.

The Chrono is a high performance race style kite. We have a 15m in our demo fleet and will have the 18m in soon although we questioned if it was even needed based on how the 15m flies and pulls in wind that you can't feel even on your face.

The 15m in the limited flying time I've had on it so far is an unbelievable efficient machine. It build apparent better than any kite I've ever seen apart from maybe some Elf models and those have a much narrower wind range. It is easily better at building apparent than any of the previous Speeds have been but with much more grunt. Which for me at 200# the Speeds always seemed lacking. We will hopefully get a chance to do a side by side comparison with the Chrono, Speed and in the same vein HQ Matrixx 2 this winter.

The Speed is obviously and incredible kite. Flysurfer has dominated to light wind realm with those kites for ages and anyone who's flown them will attest to how good the kites are. Me personally I'm a fan of the 19m Psycho 4 SA DLX for light wind because I like maneuverability as well as light wind ability. And the Psycho holds it's own against the Speeds but you have to work it. This said the 15m Chrono, is way beyond the 19m P4 DLX in light wind performance.

The Summit 15m in UL might be a good option. Though not nearly as good in light wind as the Chrono, not even the 15m but it will be more versatile and more user friendly. Not as good in light wind as a 18m Speed 4 but pretty good.

As I mentioned another option would be the Matrixx 2. We found the Matrixx 1 to be a damn good kite in light winds even with 15m being the largest and being made of standard rip stop vs. UL. We always though they should make it in a UL version or go up to 18m. They did both.

This year the Matrixx 2 comes in UL 20d lightweight and is offered in an 18m. More of a direct competitor to the Speed 4 than the Chrono. Really the Chrono is in a different class than any of the other kites we've discussed so far. The Matrixx 2 is a similar AR and design philosophy but at a lower price point.

I guess the question comes down to several factors. How light a wind do you want to ride in? What's your experience level? (The Chrono, good for advanced riders tough for most others) What do you want to do with the kite i.e. where do you want to ride? (snow/water/dirt) What's your riding style? And what's your budget?

There's another kite in the Flysurfer option that I'm not able to discuss until they do the new release on the 1st. We don't have all the details yet on that one.

Light wind kites are a tough call. Sucks that light wind kiting is also the most expensive. Any of the kites I've listed will add to your riding days but you might get lonely being the only one riding while everyone else watches. :D
Mate I know that we are talking about 2 very different kites, I've written it on my post that's not the question… I wanted to know more in detail the behaviour of each one.

I am not too fond of super light winds on the mountain.. not looking to get going with marginal winds that can drop at any time leaving you stuck in pow or suddenly picking up either! I need to cover more low end than my Frenzy 13m 2014 (and I am around 100kg fully loaded on a snowboard). A Summit 15m is too close, maybe the ultralight might be better not sure..

As I said I'm talking pure snow mountain here on a board.

I consider myself an experienced kiter + snowboarder + mountaineer and an intermediate snowkiter. I free ride on mountains and climb too… and this is a very important detail which probably is going to rule out the Chrono! As the only way to climb up is by looping the kite… not sure how to loop a Chrono 15+ !!! :o

PLUMMET

Thanks for your review.. very helpful indeed although not on snow / mountain.

I think the looping / climbing factor is pointing me more and more in the direction of a higher AR kite such as the Speed or Summit..

The Chrono might be the winner in the low end for its size and above all speed but when you freeride in the middle of a mountain you need reliability other than speed, and I'm not into racing :wink:

MATTHEPP
I snowkite in Europe only.. on various mountains including Alps. On the mountains you need foils for quite a few reasons, so the LEI are ruled out for me.

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Re: Light wind snowkite Ozone Chrono 18m vs FS Speed 3/4

Postby Dave_5280 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:58 am

You might consider a fixed bridle foil like the Ozone Quantum and don't let the 13.5 size fool you because those fixed bridle kites pull way more than depowerables. There are others out there also. I've got a set of 1 to 5 meter ones for my landboarding and they have launched me a few times!

Another kite HQ Matrixx II comes in 18M http://www.powerkites.de/Produkte/Kites ... xx-II.html

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Re: Light wind snowkite Ozone Chrono 18m vs FS Speed 3/4

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:25 pm

Ahhhh I see. Sorry Mr. Moon, wasn't clear on the exact application you were looking for.

Yes, the Chrono is absolutely out. Light wind? Hell yes. Climbing in an alpine environment? Probably not the best choice. :wink: Although I'm surprised how fast the 15m can loop. But the turn radius and the potential lack of gust handling might not be much fun.

But I bet you can glide for weeks on it!

I'm sure you already know that fixed bridle isn't an option either. You have to be able to vary power considerably in an alpine/backcountry environment and FB's as sweet as the power per size is, aren't a viable option. For example the wind may be blowing 10kts at the bottom of a ridge but a lot more at the ridgeline due to compression etc. You have to be able to dump the power otherwise you have to switch wings on the way up.

The Summit UL may be a good option, though I don't know that it really gives you much more than you already have. I think the Matrixx 2 as well as the Speed 4 are better if you want a true light wind wing. I say this based on the performance of the Matrixx 1 mind you. We haven't gotten a Matrixx 2 in here yet. But the turn rate and depower on the Matrixx 1 was suitable for your application.

How soon do you need this kite? I ask because there is another option that will be available soon but I'm not allowed to discuss it until it's released publicly. We do a lot of touring here and although our Alpine backcountry space is limited our lake based touring is pretty expansive. Some of our day tours can be as long as a 100 miles+ and when you have distances like that conditions are highly variable and it takes a certain type of kite to really shine in that application.

Last season we started using Flysurfer Peaks for this and haven't looked back.
For a backcountry kite it truly is the Dynafit system of snowkites.

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Re: Light wind snowkite Ozone Chrono 18m vs FS Speed 3/4

Postby mr moon » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:20 pm

Hardwater Kiter wrote:Ahhhh I see. Sorry Mr. Moon, wasn't clear on the exact application you were looking for.

Yes, the Chrono is absolutely out. Light wind? Hell yes. Climbing in an alpine environment? Probably not the best choice. :wink: Although I'm surprised how fast the 15m can loop. But the turn radius and the potential lack of gust handling might not be much fun.

But I bet you can glide for weeks on it!

I'm sure you already know that fixed bridle isn't an option either. You have to be able to vary power considerably in an alpine/backcountry environment and FB's as sweet as the power per size is, aren't a viable option. For example the wind may be blowing 10kts at the bottom of a ridge but a lot more at the ridgeline due to compression etc. You have to be able to dump the power otherwise you have to switch wings on the way up.

The Summit UL may be a good option, though I don't know that it really gives you much more than you already have. I think the Matrixx 2 as well as the Speed 4 are better if you want a true light wind wing. I say this based on the performance of the Matrixx 1 mind you. We haven't gotten a Matrixx 2 in here yet. But the turn rate and depower on the Matrixx 1 was suitable for your application.

How soon do you need this kite? I ask because there is another option that will be available soon but I'm not allowed to discuss it until it's released publicly. We do a lot of touring here and although our Alpine backcountry space is limited our lake based touring is pretty expansive. Some of our day tours can be as long as a 100 miles+ and when you have distances like that conditions are highly variable and it takes a certain type of kite to really shine in that application.

Last season we started using Flysurfer Peaks for this and haven't looked back.
For a backcountry kite it truly is the Dynafit system of snowkites.

No worries buddy.

With regards of looping and ascent I need to look into a slightly higher aspect kite, that's why the Summit has got such a high profile compared to the Frenzy..

Will definitely try to do some testing this winter, first of all the Peak 9m which features some very interesting details.. just need to understand if will increase the lower end of the 13 Frenzy or not.

For the time being I'll stick to what I have and on light wind days I'll get on a splitboard and enjoy some good old freeride :wink:


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