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Snow/Water Foil Question...

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Hardwater Kiter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: New England. So much better than moldy Old England.
Style: Adapt and overcome.
Gear: Foils and skis.
Brand Affiliation: www.hardwaterkiter.com Authorized retailers of Ozone, Flysurfer,HQ kites.
Location: North Conway NH. USA
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Re: Snow/Water Foil Question...

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:34 pm

In regards to treeing a kite, true foils are a bitch.

Unless you fly Peter Lynn Arcs. They are even easier to get out of a tree than an LEI. But I try not to base my kite choices on how they handle in the trees. :-?

nate76
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Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:08 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Colorado
Wyoming
Nebraska
Style: oldschool, Light Wind and big kites
Gear: 19m Zeekai
9/12/15/18 Matrixx III
5.5m Apex V
7/12m HQ Ignition II
9m HQ Topaz
Brand Affiliation: HQ
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Re: Snow/Water Foil Question...

Postby nate76 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:30 pm

Hawaiis wrote:I would avoid the HQ Matrixx. It tends to rabbit ear/wingtip collapse more than the Flysurfer.
This tendency is gone in the new version. The new model is a pretty sweet kite.

The other day I had the 9m Matrixx II out in some really gusty conditions (low 20 kts gusting to 30+), and it handled it well given what it was. It depowers nicely and didn't seem to surge or overshoot. For comparison, I switched to an 8m open cell, and immediately was having issues with surges/collapses, on what is typically pretty stable kite (Montana 8 ).

It kind of convinced me that there are some stability benefits to a closed cell. Plus you can use it later on water.

andrewjohn
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Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Snow/Water Foil Question...

Postby andrewjohn » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:37 pm

I've been flying HQ Matrixx for 3 yrs and never had an issue with wing tips folding or any stability issues. I've never had one fall out of the sky, they just drift back very nicely. Would love to try the 18 but no dealers in the UK are stocking them.

User avatar
Hardwater Kiter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: New England. So much better than moldy Old England.
Style: Adapt and overcome.
Gear: Foils and skis.
Brand Affiliation: www.hardwaterkiter.com Authorized retailers of Ozone, Flysurfer,HQ kites.
Location: North Conway NH. USA
Contact:

Re: Snow/Water Foil Question...

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:24 pm

I agree with Andrewjohn. The Matrixx one was a solid kite in the air. The Matrixx 2 is very much the same but it inflates faster and as a result exhibits less tip curl than the Matrixx 1 did initially at launch.

Really impressed with both versions.

Did a side by side comparison with the Ozone 18m Chrono yesterday. The 18m Matrixx in regards to pull is almost exactly the same as a 15 Chrono FWIW. And more user friendly.

nate76
Rare Poster
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:08 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Colorado
Wyoming
Nebraska
Style: oldschool, Light Wind and big kites
Gear: 19m Zeekai
9/12/15/18 Matrixx III
5.5m Apex V
7/12m HQ Ignition II
9m HQ Topaz
Brand Affiliation: HQ
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Contact:

Re: Snow/Water Foil Question...

Postby nate76 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:02 pm

I believe I've seen what Hawaiis was referring to on my 15m: If you pulled the trim all the way in, and pushed the bar all the way forward, the tips would fold in occasionally. They immediately popped out though as soon as you pulled in any power, and it didn't affect stability.

I did some tests with the new 9m & 18m, and couldn't get the tips to fold at all. I also did some stability/overshoot tests, and like Andrewjohn says, it just kind of comes up then settles back back without ever overshooting, even when flown through the power zone. I've got some pretty boring video of my 9m test available on youtube: the de-powered stability can be seen around the 1:50 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-c2SbWlydI

Hardwater, I always appreciate side-by-side tests (the Access/Peak comparison was great); glad you're getting a chance to test them both out.

I'm falling in love with my 18m for low-wind cruising and boosting. I've got a bad back, so the floaty jumps and soft landings are a huge bonus.

User avatar
Hardwater Kiter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: New England. So much better than moldy Old England.
Style: Adapt and overcome.
Gear: Foils and skis.
Brand Affiliation: www.hardwaterkiter.com Authorized retailers of Ozone, Flysurfer,HQ kites.
Location: North Conway NH. USA
Contact:

Re: Snow/Water Foil Question...

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:14 pm

That would make sense. One could argue there are very few foils that won't go all floppy sheeted out in full trim if you're in anything that isn't nuking. But it seems lately, and we saw this first with Flysurfer then Ozone and soon after HQ, that the newer kites are getting better at changing the projected on the fly as well as a fixed AOA to manage depower.

Basically in full depow they all look like and feel like Peter Lynn Arcs to me. :wink:

But still allow for use in light winds by function of being better PA when not depowed.

I agree with your observations on the over flight of the Matrixx2. Surges forward but drops back before it becomes an issue. Very nice


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