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Fastest Speed on Snow?

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RedSky
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Re: Fastest Speed on Snow?

Postby RedSky » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:52 pm

Hey gurke and Hardwater, that is sick! Some serious speeds. It seems to be all about friction and holding an edge. My speed in the bug of 106kph now looks lame. I wonder how fast an ice buggy would go?

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Re: Fastest Speed on Snow?

Postby plummet » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:23 pm

Hardwater Kiter wrote:D'oh! Sorry that was a typo. Now I feel like a jackass.

83.4 is my unofficial. The dang buggy guys still have me beat. Although when we go out we go out unsupported and we ride all day if need be. A little different than how the buggy guys operate or how the top buggy speed was attained.

Kite: Peter Lynn Phantom 2 Prototype
Size:12m
Location: Sebago Lake Maine. USA (see images)
Winds: 30kts gusting to about 45kts+
Surface: Firm corn snow.

It was a long day. Kept playing in the rotors coming off the island to the north. Was relying on the gusts to get the speeds.

Sorry for the corfusion on the speed.
Don't beat ya self up man about the buggy speed. Your .8mpg off being the fastest on the planet and certainly the fastest guy standing up.

I can tell you that going fast in a buggy is sooo much easier than standing doing it. Sitting in the buggy any gust can be simply transfered into speed if you have the room to arce down wind. Standing you you have to balance the gust against getting pulled over or falling on your arse..... Its a lot harder to do.

12m phantom in 30-45 knots... Farrrrrk... How do you hold and edge? can you hold more power on the ice/snow than you can on the water?

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Hardwater Kiter
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Re: Fastest Speed on Snow?

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:33 am

I would really like to get into a buggy and try it out. There are stark differences between how we attain speed on snow vs. buggys on, well, anything.

We generally run bigger kites and have to haul less weight. On hard ice one of my ski tunes will last about 45 minutes or 30-40 miles before they need a refresh. In that time though I experience little to no downwind drift. I lock my edge, drive my boots and run like I'm on rails.

I see how the buggy guys go through tires at Ivanpah. You definitely have to deal with drift more than we do. But I think that even in the best conditions your bearings offer better glide than we get even on ice.

I won't lie, it would be nice to sit down once in a while. :D

I would think an ice buggy could be pretty dam zippy. But with the short blades you are at the mercy of any anomaly the ice has in store for you. On skis we have the luxury of long edges and the ability to lift one or both legs. Buggys, not so much.

On skis we can pull ourselves out of the water if we have to.
https://youtu.be/_yCfVu5jXEw

There are so many variables in each discipline. Kite, Skis, Tires, Rider, weight (a little extra can't hurt.) wind, surface conditions, drag, temp and humidity (mostly for skiing, not sure if it effects buggy). It's amazing it comes together at all. Last season we had so much snow it killed any chance for speed runs locally. Not complaining, the riding was great! But the one time I had a chance to have a good speed session I opted to ride across the broads of Lake Champlain as it's so rare it freezes over completely. It was the first time I flew from Vermont to New York.

There will be more opportunity to go fast. And I've been on the injured list for a while but feel pretty good this year so we'll see.

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Re: Fastest Speed on Snow?

Postby SaulOhio » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:12 am

I've been working on this for ice:



It still needs work. The runners are made from some cheapo angle irons I got at Home Depot. If I can get some better materials and get it welded professionally, I may get some really serious speeds.

So far on skis and my inflated kites I've gotten up to 59.8 mph. Looking to break 60 this winter.

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Re: Fastest Speed on Snow?

Postby gurke » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:54 pm

What edge angle do you ski at pure ice?

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Re: Fastest Speed on Snow?

Postby matthepp » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:47 pm

Oh man oh man all this talk about frozen stuff is making me itch for winter! Can't wait. Maybe I'll try to pick up some long straight skis at the thrift store for a few faster speed runs this winter. Although the El Nino forecast is saying that things will be (hopefully) deep and slow around here (not complaining).

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Hardwater Kiter
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Re: Fastest Speed on Snow?

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:57 pm

gurke wrote:What edge angle do you ski at pure ice?
Depends on the hardness of the ice, the level of debris, location (close to shore vs. away) and how long you want the edge to last (speed session vs. all day touring) and what ski (DH/Speed vs. Big Mountain)

It varies anywhere from 1d BE/2d SE to 0d BE/4d+ side. Polished, no detune.

I've been seeing a trend of some people using 230-244cm Speed skis. I have a pair myself courtesy of Atomic. I use them periodically but honestly they seem to be more work than they are worth. They hold an edge as you can imagine. Hell one ski will do the job of 2 SG skis. You could fall asleep and still hold and edge.

Personally, I like shorter more nimble skis. 215-222cm with plates. I can drive an edge so so they work for me and they are able to be moved around quickly in the event of an emergency. My 240cm, too heavy, too damp, too stiff to really arc (2 sheets of metal). They aren't made to be turned and it takes me all season to build the leg strength to bend them. And not much.

Don't worry Matt, it's comin'. You'll probably be riding snow before I will. :D

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Re: Fastest Speed on Snow?

Postby gurke » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:00 pm

hi,

what do you mean with this? I only know about the degree :o
"It varies anywhere from 1d BE/2d SE to 0d BE/4d+ side. "

normal skis have 89 to 90 degree. So what is the best on just ice? 87degree or you can go more?

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Hardwater Kiter
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Re: Fastest Speed on Snow?

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:49 am

3d = 3 degree or 97 degree depending how you look at it.

BE= Base edge
SE=Side edge

Many "modern" skis come factory with 2-3degree side edge 1-1.5 Base edge.

But we use DH and SG skis. The technology in those skis has not changed much in 30 years.

No need. :wink:

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Re: Fastest Speed on Snow?

Postby joriws » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:59 am

Hardwater Kiter wrote:3d = 3 degree or 97 degree depending how you look at it.
97? Should it be 87 or 93 if 3 degrees from 90?


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