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Ozone Snowkites Issue

forum for snow- and landkiters


JanneR
Rare Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:07 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Lahti, Finland
Favorite Beaches: Varanger Peninsula, Norway
Style: Oooold skool....:)
Gear: Elf kites Joker4/5 5.0, 5.8, 11, 16, 18, 19
Ozone Edge 5, 8, 11, 15, 19
Alpine foil 4.5 XLP wing & RX-V6 board
Race board with low quality fins
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Ozone Snowkites Issue

Postby JanneR » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:02 am

Mr. Moon: I have been lucky for being able to visit the Mont Blanc area numerous times during my life. If we think that you are aiming at climbing up those glaciers which have seracs (icefalls), crevasses (cracks in ice) and other hazards, yes I concur with you to take a lower AR kite, and compromise the performance, to gain on at least some safety. A human being in this particular environment is unsafe enough even without any kite.

Making a comment on your experience with Chrono V1......this type of kites take some time for the kiter to become familiar with the kites performance envelope, as well as limitations. If there is no vaste experience of High AR race kites before, I would dare to argue that on first encounter this understanding and "butt-feeling" takes rather a few days/weeks to build up rather than a few hours.

Of course it is possible to fly it out of the box, but to have deeper understanding in all behaviour, and right ways to control the kite, BEFORE any tip curls etc., this takes time. An experienced kiter knows when the kite is approaching a possible tip curl situation, and acts before it even happens.

Interested to hear a comment on my approach. Anyone?

Janne

mr moon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:05 am
Local Beach: Shoreham (UK)
Favorite Beaches: Brandon Bay, Silver Sands & a few more
Style: Wave / Freeride
Gear: North, Firewire, Wainman, Ozone
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Ozone Snowkites Issue

Postby mr moon » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:30 am

Hey Janne, no I'm not climbing the Mont Blanc with my kite or slalom through crevasses yet, although ot might be a new discipline one day ;)

With regards of your comment on kiter skills, I agree with you about the complete different flying mode and skills required to get used to a race foil, but that is not the issue. You need to get the right kite for your riding style other than having to adapt to a different kite in order to gain the extra low end for your style..

To prevent tip curling is extra work, to manage gusts is extra work, and when you climb uou want to BE SAFE, you want to have stability above your head, not extra work. Beside you can work out by yourself that a Chrono 15-18 will have a turning radius way too big to allow you to loop in a steep environment (crevassees free of course!).

I can see from the videos that the V2 has been refined towards freeride, has been made more stable and less curling, the structure seems to be like an open cell in fact.

I could possibly do with a Summit 15 UL and a Chrono V2 18m to finish off my expensive quiver!

Kite safe :hangloose:

nate76
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Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:08 pm
Kiting since: 2005
Local Beach: Colorado
Wyoming
Nebraska
Style: oldschool, Light Wind and big kites
Gear: 19m Zeekai
9/12/15/18 Matrixx III
5.5m Apex V
7/12m HQ Ignition II
9m HQ Topaz
Brand Affiliation: HQ
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Contact:

Re: Ozone Snowkites Issue

Postby nate76 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:42 pm

Hello Mr. Moon,

One other option you might consider is the new HQ Montana IX which comes standard in a light weight material and looks like it is going to be a fantastic wing. I owned the 14m Montana 8, and it was a great light-wind kite. The 14m Montana 9 - with its smaller pack-size and even better light wind ability should make a superb light wind kite (and it looks stunning!). The higher C-shape allows it to turn well even in the larger sizes.

The Montana's offer a lot of performance for the money, and might be worth checking out. Lots of great choices out there these days - wish I could try them all!

Image
https://vimeo.com/141382230

Cheers!

Nate

JanneR
Rare Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:07 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Lahti, Finland
Favorite Beaches: Varanger Peninsula, Norway
Style: Oooold skool....:)
Gear: Elf kites Joker4/5 5.0, 5.8, 11, 16, 18, 19
Ozone Edge 5, 8, 11, 15, 19
Alpine foil 4.5 XLP wing & RX-V6 board
Race board with low quality fins
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Ozone Snowkites Issue

Postby JanneR » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:56 pm

Mr. Moon: I agree 100% with your approach. When it gets steep, an agile enough kite is a plus. Personally I have resolved these turning radius issues by using longer flying lines, up to 55mtr. But these lengths have their other issues...not necessarily recommending to try..

May be throw a few lines once you have logged some hours on your new gear, regardless of your final conclusion. Just to understand if chrono v2 / summit 15 light lives up to its reputation..

Janne

lopor
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Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:31 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Gear: Ozone Frenzy 2015 11m, Catalyst 2014 9m
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Re: Ozone Snowkites Issue

Postby lopor » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:51 pm

Hey guys, I just saw you discussing about the Ozone Ultralight series. Do you have any personal experience with them? I got an offer on second hand Frenzy 2015 UL that is worth considering. However the kite was damaged and then repaired. So what do you think about the UL durability? Should I worry about it? (considering the general durability plus the fact that the kite was repaired) I intend to use it on land and snow...

mr moon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:05 am
Local Beach: Shoreham (UK)
Favorite Beaches: Brandon Bay, Silver Sands & a few more
Style: Wave / Freeride
Gear: North, Firewire, Wainman, Ozone
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Ozone Snowkites Issue

Postby mr moon » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:30 pm

NATE:
The Montana is a nice looking kite, but I'm very happy with my Frenzys just need to cover the light winds.

JANNE:
I'll be more than happy to throw some feedback here, once stoked :wink:

User avatar
Hardwater Kiter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: New England. So much better than moldy Old England.
Style: Adapt and overcome.
Gear: Foils and skis.
Brand Affiliation: www.hardwaterkiter.com Authorized retailers of Ozone, Flysurfer,HQ kites.
Location: North Conway NH. USA
Contact:

Re: Ozone Snowkites Issue

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:10 am

2nd JanneR's suggestion of longer lines or extensions. As he stated 55m is an exceptional length in terms of flying and some would argue that the drag induced by that length offsets the benefit of the added length but I don't feel thats' the case. Especially if it means getting aite into high enough into the gradient to take advantae of winds that you can't with shorter lines. The biggest drawback IMO is the added lag in steering and even then, not much of a drawback.

We generally ride with a set of 5-10m extensions in our pocket or pack in case the wind drops off. Adds considerable power to a given size in a pinch and is a worthwhile addition for any kite.

As far as the Montana as an option we deal in both and it doesnt offer any better performance than the 15m Summit UL. It is less money than the compareable Ozone offerings but doesn't touch the performance offered by the Chrono 2. I would opt for the HQ Zeekai before the Montana as a light wind option. But still my recommendation is the Chrono.

Of course in non-Ozone offerings, there is the Flysurfer Peak 2 12m. Which is a consumate lightwind tool. Not as refined in terms of flgh qulity as the Summit or Frenzy but still very good for climbing and touring. A lot o power in th 12m and even more with extensions. We use them for our school on light wind days. They enable us to teach on days we would otherwise have to cancel lessons. The Chrono is a it better in lightwind but we can't very well put rand new students on Chronos.

Lopor, there are several advantages to UL material. Obviously it shaves weight but it also allows better packabilility. It also helps enhance turn ratem and overall handling. With some kites, like the Ozone offerings, there is some level of reduced durability that has to be weighed against the added perfomance. And with some models, like a custom R1 in UL, don't come with any warranty and cost more to produce do to the added difficulty in producing an R1 in UL.

Personally I have not had any issues with Ozones made of UL material nor have any of our customers. I think for the most part in terms of UL durability I think it's generally tougher stuff that it gets credit for. If the kite in question was repaired properly and if the price is right I say go for it.

JanneR
Rare Poster
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:07 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Lahti, Finland
Favorite Beaches: Varanger Peninsula, Norway
Style: Oooold skool....:)
Gear: Elf kites Joker4/5 5.0, 5.8, 11, 16, 18, 19
Ozone Edge 5, 8, 11, 15, 19
Alpine foil 4.5 XLP wing & RX-V6 board
Race board with low quality fins
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Ozone Snowkites Issue

Postby JanneR » Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:40 pm

Hardwaterkiter: Thanks for backing me up re: long lines...I have used ozone 30mtr racelines as extensions...they are so thin that the drag and worse steering response are not issues to worry about, in my opinion. I sail on lakes with some islands on them, so these lines allow me to pass some islands on distances to them I would not have a chance with 20-25mtr lines. The kite flies most of time over the disturbed airflow.

The main issues with my Elf Joker 5 18mtr with 55mtr lines are:

- gybes and tacks take time, since the kite must fly long way through the window.
- when the wind picks up to say 20+knots, the drag then increases and pushes the kite deeper into the window, the angle of attack increases, lift increases => I get too much power in the end...This happens may be a fraction sooner, than it would eventually happen in any case, with normal lines also.

I have thought about a potential scenario where I fall / lose 1 ski or similar "emergency". Then, unless I make quick release, the kite would take a looong time to reach side of window/ground to stop pulling hard.

Janne

mr moon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:05 am
Local Beach: Shoreham (UK)
Favorite Beaches: Brandon Bay, Silver Sands & a few more
Style: Wave / Freeride
Gear: North, Firewire, Wainman, Ozone
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Ozone Snowkites Issue

Postby mr moon » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:47 pm

I can't find the Ozone race bar line length.. looked everywhere on their site but couldn't find any information, like can't find any kites weight information either.. am I missing something or is this top secret information that Ozone users mustn't know? :o

:idea: Hardwater: Any feedback on the the Chrono V2 airtime-gliding? :roll:

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droffats
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 617
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:39 am
Kiting since: 2006
Style: Freeride, Hdrofoil, Waves, Big Air
Gear: Ozone, Ocean Rodeo, SP Boarding, Mystic
Brand Affiliation: www.adventurekiteboarding.com
Location: Kite Shop
Contact:

Re: Ozone Snowkites Issue

Postby droffats » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:10 am

Mr. Moon, your dealer can order from a variety of line lengths for your preference (at least in US, not sure about elsewhere).

- Stafford
www.adventurekiteboarding.com


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