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Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Result

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Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Result

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:40 pm

Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Results

Well here we are at week 10. We never thought we would make it to week 10 this season given how bad the winter has been for most of us but the submissions keep coming in. Even as some competitors have been forced out due to lack of snow/ice others have recently joined and keep the 2016 ranking going. We run the GSR for 12 weeks and it's looking like this year we will see it through all of them!

The Mid-West contingent, even as many of there lakes are turning to open water, are still going strong. All top three spots are held by those guys with John Zdechnik takeing first place while Robert Bocik takes the number 2 spot and Lonny Hieden rounds out 3rd.

Good to see Chrissy Zobitz and Molly Savard throwing down fat speeds in the upper end of the ranks and showing that girls can hang.

Glad to see Masskiter Joe Sharron squeaking out yet another entry. Some pretty raw conditions, almost as much grass as snow but still making it work. Smile

For full ranking please visit our site...

http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/2016-spee ... 10-results

Week 11 submissions are due on the 18th. Good Luck!

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Re: Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Result

Postby Peert » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:08 pm

Global speed ranking in Mph?

Is that nautical miles? How big proportion of worlds citizens used Mph anyway?

If you call it GLOBAL i would suggest to use SI units.

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Re: Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Result

Postby plummet » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:49 pm

Those wind speeds are so low. I would love to see what someone could do on a 6m r1 or sonic in 30+ knots.

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Re: Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Result

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:09 pm

In the interest of keeping things simple, we use mph. In the combined 12 years of the Stormboarding and HWK ranking nobody has ever questioned the use of MPH. Nor the use of English or anything else that could be deemed non-global. Google has plenty of easy conversion tools to convert the results to whatever you like. :D

@ Plummet. We are finding some interesting things out about how a given kite works in these conditions. To this day, the fastest speeds are still on lower AR wings. On snow/ice in certain surface conditions with certain riders we are finding the grunty low AR kites are as fast as race types. The high AR kites are faster in a race course as they go upwind a lot faster. But in terms of raw speed, where grunt can be translated into forward motion, the race kites have little to no advantage on certain conditions. In addition they are more susceptible to pilot errors that can hinder speed. Not to mention gust handling. For example flying the Chrono 2 side by side with the R1, the Chrono beats you up a lot less.
The last two seasons we've done a number of side by side comparisons and we're surprised to find so little difference between the 2 types.

The high AR kites have the clear advantage in light winds though. A huge advantage.

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Re: Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Result

Postby plummet » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:03 pm

Hardwater Kiter wrote:
@ Plummet. We are finding some interesting things out about how a given kite works in these conditions. To this day, the fastest speeds are still on lower AR wings. On snow/ice in certain surface conditions with certain riders we are finding the grunty low AR kites are as fast as race types. The high AR kites are faster in a race course as they go upwind a lot faster. But in terms of raw speed, where grunt can be translated into forward motion, the race kites have little to no advantage on certain conditions. In addition they are more susceptible to pilot errors that can hinder speed. Not to mention gust handling. For example flying the Chrono 2 side by side with the R1, the Chrono beats you up a lot less.
The last two seasons we've done a number of side by side comparisons and we're surprised to find so little difference between the 2 types.

The high AR kites have the clear advantage in light winds though. A huge advantage.
I find that just weird. My experience with high speed is using kite buggies. The kite buggy has little rolling resistance and goes fast. The high aspect kite wins the day in the kitebuggy everytime!,,,,
In theory the high aspect kite should be able to faster downwind because the faster you go the further back the apparent wind window shifts. As the high aspect kite can sit further forward In the window the it can go faster down wind......

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Re: Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Result

Postby kitexpert » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:02 pm

Hardwater Kiter wrote:
@ Plummet. We are finding some interesting things out about how a given kite works in these conditions. To this day, the fastest speeds are still on lower AR wings. On snow/ice in certain surface conditions with certain riders we are finding the grunty low AR kites are as fast as race types. The high AR kites are faster in a race course as they go upwind a lot faster. But in terms of raw speed, where grunt can be translated into forward motion, the race kites have little to no advantage on certain conditions. In addition they are more susceptible to pilot errors that can hinder speed. Not to mention gust handling. For example flying the Chrono 2 side by side with the R1, the Chrono beats you up a lot less.
The last two seasons we've done a number of side by side comparisons and we're surprised to find so little difference between the 2 types.

The high AR kites have the clear advantage in light winds though. A huge advantage.
One reason might be high aspect foilkites have more bridle lines than any other kites. Drag they produce increase in square to windspeed. In early days of aviation planes had a lot of wires to support the wings, they couldn't fly fast.

Low aspect LEI's or arcs don't have much bridles at all.

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Re: Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Result

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:21 am

Without a doubt parasitic drag playsmamhuge role. For me, all my fastest speeds have been on arcs and getting the similar speeds on bridled foils does take a little more effort. I think the same speeds can be achieved but will require more effort and higher winds than a non-bridled wing.

I know my statement seems counter intuitive. It took me a while to come togripsnithnit myself.

Anyone who rides water, buggies or ground boards usually find this hard to accept but the key difference between the other disciplines and those of us riding on snow or more importantly, hard ice, we are able to eliminate downwind drift. The right rider with the right ski and experience can ride like they are on rails and hold trajectory to the point that some kites can experience some level of stall. Especially if the kite is smaller or high AR.

With high AR wings I find much more of a balancing act is required. I'm still feeling things out and I feel that higher AR wings can get riders to some fast speeds but what with some modification of how we would normally approach things. We'll see. :-)

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Re: Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Result

Postby plummet » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:04 am

My high speed in the buggy is using a ozone edge. So high aspect lei. I still find the high aspect lei give more speed than the low aspect.

However in the buggy you don't need to have the kite hold you up and gusts get transated into speed. When i'm going fast on a landboard (well 40mph is fast for me on a landboard) I need the kite to hold me up somewhat as i'm leaning back. So a lower aspect more stable kite may be better at keep you upright. Perhaps that is the difference?

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Re: Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Result

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:55 pm

The surface is the biggest difference I think. Generally I have the kite low in the power zone and edge horizontally against it with my edges locked into the ice. Rides like I'm on rails. Not lost energy or speed due to downwind drift. :thumb:

Buggies on playa surface seem to be the closest in term or riding resistance. But if you look at the trajectories of buggy runs vs. kite runs, buggies tend to go in a straight line while we transition into a downwind arc. I may be wrong but they tend to run buggies in high winds with minimal gust factor. Personally I run in moderated-high winds with high gust factor. And I like to hook into those gusts.

40mph on a land board is fast enough for me. Land boarding at anything faster than I can run gives me pause. Falling with skis on ice is a lot less hairy IMO than falling off something at 40. :o
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plummet
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Re: Hardwater Kiting Global GPS Speed Ranking 2016 Week 10 Result

Postby plummet » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:32 pm

The fastest speed on a buggy is still obtained by riding in an arc downwind with the kite low as you describe.
The guys at Ivanpah have a surface similar to concrete and can get that locked in feel with no drift you talk about. Probably why the world record is held there.

Going fast on beaches you are limited by the beach/wind angle. At my local i can sometimes get a sand bank build up that might be 10 degrees. If that times with the right wind angle and wind speed i can get that locked in feel with the kite low.
But I only have about 200m of that and the run out is a boulder wall, baby head sized rocks and drift wood.... so 50mph is the fastest i can go at my local.

Sorry for the thread highjack. But it is an interesting discussion.


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