Thats fine you don't agree. I flew foils for many years and found what I like for my riding preference. These are my observations from personal experience and watching others for over 12 years of kiting.
Granted not every session is going to have an issue that takes time to sort out but it certainly happens. And no the setup and packup does not take longer which is irrelevant as it takes longer to put on ski boots and turn on the great tunes your going to listen to for the day. then to pump up a kite or fold a foil. They are both equal in every way with a few more quirky twists with the foil.
Here are a few examples you will never experience with a tube.
To the OP of this topic you have LEI's and foils I'd run both make excellent Snowkites. I think you might need to change your aspect ratio to get the jump height you want maybe move from the apex to the montana or frenzy or even a RPM or Rally. Look at ebay and hey black friday is here there are deals to be had. I don't think smaller then a 7m is going to help your great quiver. Gusts and snownado's usually add more risk not worth the consequences. Unless you wanna hop on some speed skates and grab a trainer kite.
Or Fillup on some more tube snowkites or closed cell foils and you and your partner can kite year round!
Last edited by Craz Z on Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
another good one. Houston is having some black fridays right now a bar for 175 isn't bad. Kites will be up soon. I'm waiting on the hydro foils to go on sale supposed to be 600$ less then retail might come with a flight school mast set.
I think it depends on how clean your air is about whether or not you like foils in the snow. If you have nice clean air then sure foils are amazing. My advice for buying a foil is if you ever think you might be using in it dirty air for goodness sake get a closed cell foil. Closed cell foils are much better at holding their shape than open air foils. Ever year I see people out at the local inland lakes trying to ride their "snowkite" take one look at it see it's an open cell kite and know their kite will spend more time on the ground than in the air. If you have clean air fly whatever you like, closed, open, inflatable it's all good.
I agree 100% we don't know any of the conditions these guys fly in and a closed cell would certainly be a better choice. Where I live we are mostly high mountain fliers with pretty dirty air alot of the time. Really depends on location some parts of Montana are really great winds! I only get blowdryer steady clean air in the summer when I drive to Hood or the coast.
Most of what I described are what we experience out here everyday. Deep snow, fluky winds, extreme gusts/lulls, snownado's, all wreak havoc on foil kite fliers. On the other hand when I used to landboard on the coast my foil kites were my number 1 choice.
I guess I just don't understand the preconceived notion of people interested in snowkiting always revert to talking about which "snowkite" to buy when they are sitting on a mountain of kite gear that works perfectly fine for snowkiting.
I really haven't seen many conditions at least here where a 7m or lower was even worth going out in as the winter winds that reach 45-65 just bring so much knotty gusty snownado wind it just isn't much fun to do. Clean coastal wind that is sustained I'd go in any condition after flying here and maybe a 5m or even the 4.5m would be perfect for the conditions.
I envy smooth winds (and they do happen here) as you can focus more on your kiting rather then what your kites about to do to you!
Thanks for all your thoughts! My partner and I fly both foils and tube kites in snow however since our wind is usually clean on the frozen bays around Lake Ontario we fly mostly foils in winter. Sometimes we do venture inland and have found that tube kites manage the gusty conditions very well.
When winds are of good quality I side with the notion that foils are easier and faster to get up and flying and pack away quicker. I've found it's a matter of practice and good technique. When not out with my sweetie I typically kite alone and find foil kites easier to launch and land on my own.
Regarding Pansch kites I've owned two so far. The 7 meter Blaze 2 flew fine from day 1 while the 12m Blaze 2 would not fly until I adjusted the bridal - a 50% out-of-the box success rate. Our 7 meter has taught many people the basics of power kite flying and has seen a LOT of abuse. The internal baffles have been torn multiple times due to Tomahawk crashes onto the ice but thus far they have always been fixable with sail repair tape and a home-style sewing machine. Overall the kite doesn't owe us a thing it's just worn out and it's going to shred eventually.
The HQ Apex is certainly of better finish than the Pansch products but I can't say it is "better" in the way it flies - just different because it is a different kite.
So far this discussion has focussed largely on the merits of foil verses tube fro snowkiting. To be clear - at this point in time I am looking to expand my FOIL quiver for snowkiting (I've got lots of tube kites). I understand that I need to look for a higher aspect kite to get better jumping abilities. From the relies to my original post I've seen mention of Pansch Blaze 3 (no one has given a first hand account) the HQ Montana and Ozone Frenzy. Any other suggestions? One concern about the Pansch lineup is that many of their kites (Auroura 2, Blaze 3, A 15) are set up for 5-line bars and I do not have one.
The aurora flies perfectly fine on 4 lines. I have a couple of the aurora's and always fly it in 4 line mode (even though I have a few 5 line bars). The 5th line is for safety only and is slack. I always run my safety to the single center line. Now of course if you do this when you have to hit the safety the kite will spin around. That's the only concern that after you throw the safety you have to spend time untwisting it. So don't let it stop you from flying those kites on 4 lines if you feel like it. I believe the A15 is also the same, not sure about the blaze 3. I have never liked any of the HQ kites, but maybe they have gotten better over the past few years.
Good luck on getting lake Ontario frozen up good! Seems pretty warm so far and I'm not counting on st clair or erie freezing up.
Now that I think about it, I can't remember of a 5th foil kite that requires tension on the 5th line so it must be flown in 5 line mode, but maybe there is one.
Personally like Inflatables for snowkites, nothing better than a 17 or 18m in Deep pow, Big foils are a real pain in light wind. But when it comes to smaller kites 9m or less, which you use in high winds, foils will save your hands. But on the flip side a used beginner 7m inflatable is cheaper than a 7m foil. Pansh kites I have to agree that some dont fly out of the box.
The last 2 generations of HQ kites have been excellent. The new Matrixx 3 is amazing. The best thing you can do is try one and decide for yourself.
Don, If you get a chance demo both the Frenzy and the Montana. They are definitely different kites. I had the opportunity to demo them side-by-side. Based on the conditions you are describing, I think you'd really like the Montana 9.