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Ridiculous Ram Claims - 8m Jumps in 8Knots

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Ridiculous Ram Claims - 8m Jumps in 8Knots

Postby Guest » Sun Jun 22, 2003 12:57 am

If you want a good laugh, or if you simply want to check out some ridiculous ram propaganda first hand, check out the following link:

index.php?page=http://www.kiteforum.com ... tton=forum

NO kite can jump in 8 knots, let alone do 8m jumps.

Ram lovers making stupid claims like this draw attention to one simple fact: Ram airs are aerodynamically inferior to inflatables.

PMU

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Postby Airgear.com » Sun Jun 22, 2003 2:38 am

Hi PMU,

I fly inflatos and prefer them over RAMS and fully agree that such claims are a joke. But your statement that RAMS are aerodynamically inferior is incorrect. As a pure wing, a RAM (like the Blade) will actually have better lift to drag ration and a better glide ceoffcient compared to an inflato of equal size which will make it aerodynamically SUPERIOR to an inflato. BUT, for kitesurfing, the inflatos provide a better solution because of their added stability.

So overal, you're right, I've flown them all and as of now, inflatos are where it's at!

Boaz

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Re: Ridiculous Ram Claims - 8m Jumps in 8Knots

Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Sun Jun 22, 2003 4:29 am

Anonymous wrote:If you want a good laugh, or if you simply want to check out some ridiculous ram propaganda first hand, check out the following link:

index.php?page=http://www.kiteforum.com ... tton=forum

NO kite can jump in 8 knots, let alone do 8m jumps.

Ram lovers making stupid claims like this draw attention to one simple fact: Ram airs are aerodynamically inferior to inflatables.

PMU
I'll take the bait, its quiet here today. :lol:

Maybe your definition of airdynamic superiority need to be defined?

Is it possible that the inflatable sled design is in fact from a strictly airnautical perspective inferior to the best, latest foils?
I think so, only my opinion though.
But, perhaps the difference is not as great as people suspect?
And perhaps the "inefficiencies" of the inflatable sled design in fact combine with a very clever overall design, to make it airdynamically superior for the application of kiteboarding?
I reckon so.

Plus, I guarantee you that it is possible to jump and get to 8m or more off the ground with many modern foils, and I know that I could do it with a big Ozone Frenzy or Flexi Blade, and I would have a very high chance of landing as soft as a feather and ride away powered too, even if I could not go upwind, on the surface used.
The surface would be snow, or sand dunes!
I've done it, so has my son.
Its great fun.

Big foils have been around for quit a while now, many were not brilliant performance wise, but they could be and were a lot of fun to fly in very light winds.
Modern foils made with the assistance of computers are radically better, if you have not flown the very latest foils, or had a go at building them, you may not appreciate how well they fly and how efficient they are in light winds compared to the large inflatos, especially when used on land or snow.
I remember using a 10M super light weight Icarex Peel in a buggy on a day where the wind would not have got above 4 knots, and in the 4 knots I was getting pulled out of the buggy!
Mainly because you needed 1.5M long arms to turn those things!

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Re: Ridiculous Ram Claims - 8m Jumps in 8Knots

Postby loco4viento » Sun Jun 22, 2003 6:06 am

Anonymous wrote:If you want a good laugh........
Ram lovers making stupid claims like this draw attention to one simple fact: Ram airs are aerodynamically inferior to inflatables.
PMU
Another quote from our scared little friend:

"Ram airs are simply not safe. Inflatables are vastly superior on all safety and aerodynamic criteria." (PMU)
____________________________________________________________
Hello PMU,

Have you decided not to defend your statement concerning ALL safety criteria? Good thing. At least you had the sense to abandon one of your many ridiculous claims.

As for aerodynamic superiority, I doubt it makes the slightest bit of difference to a lot of us. What does it mean? Is a pickup truck functionally superior to a Lotus? Functionally inferior? I guess it depends what you want to do with it. LEI vs open celled bridled ram air vs closed cell bridled ram air vs nonbridled ram air sled-foil?????? I doubt any formula defining aerodynamic superiority has a thing to do with anybody's decision on what to use. Imagine, maybe a certain rigid framed single skin kite could be (or already is?) produced that is aerodynamically superior to everything else based on some formula. Do you think everybody will begin using it on the water?

Personally, I think people choose based on lots of other factors; ultimately it comes down to things like personal taste, riding style, flying style, durability, local conditions, locally popular brands and styles, locally supported brands, advertising, influences by pros and locally respected riders, and many other factors long before whatever your definition of "aerodynamic superiority" ever enters into it. So I fly what I like and you fly what you like. Pretty simple. The only complicated part is wondering why somebody like you would try to talk tough but hide behind your pretend name like a scared little kid or some cowardly guy with a sheet over his head.

John

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Postby kitepoweraddict » Sun Jun 22, 2003 11:49 am

Shit!
Steve and John (Loco) agreeing?????
True love always shines through
XXX

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Postby loco4viento » Sun Jun 22, 2003 7:04 pm

kitepoweraddict wrote:Shit!
Steve and John (Loco) agreeing?????
True love always shines through
XXX
It's amazing what a bit of relationship counselling can do.

Steve and I are actually working on getting a little kitesurfing trip going with Pump Me Up and the Flysurfer team!

John

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Postby Dano » Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:59 pm

Guys, your missing da point, I think. It IS a bit stupid to say foils or any kite can jump 8m in 8knots! Just impossible.

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Postby jaros » Sun Jun 22, 2003 10:10 pm

here we go again....

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Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Mon Jun 23, 2003 1:25 am

kitepoweraddict wrote:Shit!
Steve and John (Loco) agreeing?????
True love always shines through
XXX
Only someone with a marvellous name like kitepoweraddict could understand!!
:-)))

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Gear: Ozone 6/8/10/12 Reo V4, 9/14 Enduro, Zephyr V5, Edge V9 10M Axis 5'7" Kapua, 5'4" New Wave, Patrol 1.48, Firewire Vanguard 5'2" and Evo 5'1" and Delta Designs ReVamp 5'9" Ride engine carbon elite, rope slider.
Brand Affiliation: Ozone, AxisBoarding
Location: Australia

Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Mon Jun 23, 2003 1:41 am

Dano wrote:Guys, your missing da point, I think. It IS a bit stupid to say foils or any kite can jump 8m in 8knots! Just impossible.
No its not stupid, but it does show to us that PMU possibly has a lack of expereince with modern foils, or he would not put his foot in it by saying things that are possible - are impossible. Maybe he should just say they are impossible feats for him to do.?
And maybe he is sitting back laughing at us for taking the bait again?

If you look at the videos, of my son Goshen jumping on land with a landboard and foils, you will see him at one point jump off a large rock, he gets a bit of lift after leaving the rock and I would estimate he was approx 7.8M off the ground.
Ozone have released (so have Advance) footage of people getting in excess of 10M off the ground, in the snow, in very light winds, hang times of approx 30 secs have been achieved!.


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