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Suicidal clips are dangerous

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Suicidal-clips are useful in kite boarding ?

Poll ended at Sun May 11, 2003 9:09 pm

Yes, Tommy should stop smoking that grazz
6
40%
No, I will join this crusade
5
33%
No idea
4
27%
 
Total votes: 15

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myZk
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Suicidal clips are dangerous

Postby myZk » Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:09 pm

Since I been in technical cave diving for a while I learnt that those kind of quick-clips can and will hook up to anything that comes near it, it can lead to fatal accidents. In diving we call it suicide-clips from the facts that cave-divers have died of reasons that involves these clips. :worry:

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I think there are a risk using those in kite boarding :!:
Imagine that you get in trouble for some reason and this clip hook up in one or more of your leader-lines, you will now be in even more trouble...

Even worse case; You don't notice the newbie, he suddenly lost control of his kite and is looping it in power zone> you get hit by his lines> you think your lucky that you still have two ears on your head, when you notice that a few of his lines hooked into your new shining suicide-clips> are you likely to trust the newbie for handle this situation? (You have less than one second to decide)>The newbie somehow manage to release his kite> Unfortunally this did not kill his kite because you are attached to his lines> Now you have an interesting situation to figure out...

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Of some reason I like to ban suicidal-clips from nearly everything, are I’m alone and should I seek mental care in this issue? :jump:

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Mr Jo Macdonald
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Postby Mr Jo Macdonald » Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:36 pm

I agree Tommy, I also think some other your better clips although better have lots of things on them that can catch on things. i used to use one of these to clip my leash on then found it could catch and prevent the leash from pulling through clean. Imo, the less clips, hardware and stuff you have around the better

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RickI
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Postby RickI » Thu Apr 17, 2003 12:08 am

Hello Tommy,

A cave diver, great! You guys go where if you aren't sufficiently prepared, well trained and equiped you just may not be coming back if things go seriously wrong.

A question for you. How many knives do you carry when you cave dive? Also, how many lines do you have out at a given time?

Good points on the hardware. Another consideration is avoiding metal hardware when possible on the ends of lines that might go flying away from you.

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myZk
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Postby myZk » Tue Apr 22, 2003 8:31 am

I’m not quite sure where you want to go whit your question :) , anyway…

#OFFTOPIC;

Every team member have a knife including me, there are preferably only one line that we have to keep in focus.
Although in frequently visited sites there can be shitloads :evil: of different lines, then it’s time to clean the cave up

#END OFFTOPIC

I thought that this threed should give a debate but it did not, curious why?
:bye:

Ari Raptis
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Postby Ari Raptis » Tue Apr 22, 2003 10:12 am

The properties of these clips have been brought up before.
Yes,they are dangerous.

Some use them on the kite leash.

They should not be used.

(except for your car keys !)

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RickI
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Postby RickI » Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:09 pm

myZk wrote:I’m not quite sure where you want to go whit your question :) , anyway…

#OFFTOPIC;

Every team member have a knife including me, there are preferably only one line that we have to keep in focus.
Although in frequently visited sites there can be shitloads :evil: of different lines, then it’s time to clean the cave up

#END OFFTOPIC

I thought that this threed should give a debate but it did not, curious why?
:bye:
Your original point about connectors to avoid is a good one. It is easy for a loaded up line to accidentally clip into one of these connectors and lead to problems. Getting the line out of the clip particularly if you are being dragged is very hard to do if even feasible.

The point about the knife didn't have anything to do with connectors but it isn't off the topic of kiteboarding safety. I have encountered many Florida cave divers for dozens of years that carry multiple knives over concerns that they might not be able to reach one knife only if badly tangled up. Most cavers deploy only one line at a time from a reel and that line is maintained with some tension in an effort to keep it from billowing up and enveloping the dive team.

Kiteboarders often have close to 400 ft. of line, four separate sections flying around overhead. The tangle potential appears to be fairly high in kiteboarding when compared to cave diving. You can get wrapped up easily with your kite on the water or a more serious means, rare one fortunately, you can stall your kite and be showered by falling line. Kiteboarding lines can also cut relatively easiy under major tensions that are routine in the sport. It appears that the majority of kiteboarders carry no knives. Some carry knives that they may not be able to reach in an emergency situation. There are a couple of cases described in the KSI in which the rider either couldn't reach the hook knife at the back of their harness or were too tied up to reach their normal knife while being dragged at high speed. Also what happens if you drop your only knife in an emergency? It is easy to do and hook knives can be very compact and easy to keep out of the way.

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KiteGlider
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Postby KiteGlider » Tue Apr 22, 2003 2:46 pm

A couple years ago I was using the "#2" style suicide clip to connect to a board leash. (I use a grab board leash now)

After falling off my big 240 directional, I pulled the leash to bring the board towards me, and as I stuck my foot into the back foot strap,
the suicide clip securely hooked into my bootie and the foot strap.
I tried to slip out of the strap to undo it, but it was hooked in hard!
So there I was, trying to fly the kite overhead while my foot was attached to the back strap, twisting around and getting tighter.
Managed to get my foot out of the boot, then detached the boot and foot strap.

So, no suicide clips for me please,
KG

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Protos
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Postby Protos » Tue Apr 22, 2003 2:50 pm

OK, I'm on board with you on this one.

I'm switching my kite leash harness attachment from a #1 to a #5 type.

Thanks for the "head's up"! I would not have liked to have found out about an accidental clip-in on my own! :o


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