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 Post subject: Pysco2 - 21 vs Titan 21.5 Review
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:48 am 
Just for everyone that lives in low wind places like myself I will give you some of my thoughts on these 2 kites now that I have had a bit of time to compare the P2-21 vs the Titan 21.5

Out of the 2 kites the Titan still has the better low end grunt, better for wake style jumps and pop off the water, in 8 -10 knots I can jump this kite well but not by steering the kite to zenith, the Titan kite turns too slowly in this sort of low wind to jump well like a normal kite and you have to use wake style pop to have fun.

The p2 -21 is by far more the interesting kite of the two, It does not have the same powerful grunt in the low end but you can jump the kite like a normal smaller kite by sending it back to zenith, great pop off the water and there are so many different settings it beats the Titan hands down for flexibility.

In 10 knots I could jump 2 to 3 meters in the air, nice and floaty jumps on full wac + and 1 knot tip brake. On these setting the kite turned very well with no stress or strain on you arms , very sweet.

I also made the chicken loop line 6 cm shorter as the standard length seems to be set up for mr large monkey arms!!. On these settings with full power strap and the bar pushed out fully the kite turned very well and had good power , in the lulls by pulling in on the bar the kite just powered up beautifully like pressing the gas peddle on you car

For best low wind but slower turns ( still turns better than the Titan) try full wac + and Full brake, this really powered the kite up but still not to the same extent as the Titan,

Overall impression is if you own a T21, I would suggest buying the P2-26 if you want the same low end. I think at 88kg and a 130 board I could hold the P2-21 up to around 17 knots, but I would rather be on my P2-17 from around 15 knots.


If you were to go P2-10, P2-17, p2-26

I Think would be my perfect combination, but it all depends on the type of winds you get where you live.

Drew


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:05 am 
How were you able to get a Psycho2 21? Have they been released? Or were you flying a prototype? I have been told they wouldn't be released for a week or more.


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 Post subject: PMU's statements vs Foils
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:31 am 
Foils are vastly superior to Leading Edge pump up kites ( water wings). I've summarized the reasons for the superiority of Foil Kites:

1: Lift to drag ration (L/D)
- The highest L/D ratio is not always optimal. A high L/D ratio is critical in large kites because they move slowly. Large kites output steady power but generally lose out in ability to turn suddenly and generate sudden upward pull.

- Because large LE kites have a HUGE "D" coefficient compared to Foils, they are unable to generate the sudden upward power spikes.

- For this reason, large LE kites can pull steadily enough, but will ALWAYS lack the jumping ability of a large quality 2004 Foil. E.g. Flysurfer PS2- 21 or 26 m kites

-Small kites move rapidly and therefore have large power spikes. These kites are INTENTIONALLY designed to move slower by ram and inflatable manufacturers. The lack or presence of a leading edge/ram cells is really irrelevant in the small sizes since SLOWNESS is a virtue in these sizes. The things to look for in these sizes are luff curve, chord, aspect ration for aerodynamic handling.

2: Inertia
- Because large LE kites have a much larger mass of air in them (filling the bladders) their inertia is enormous. It is very difficult moving this mass of air across the sky to generate sudden power spikes and therefore lift. The inertia and slow turning makes a lot of modern moves (eg kiteloops) incredibly difficult, if not impossible using a 30m Nash Kite. Large LE kites like the Nash 30 contain OVER 11kg of air in their bladders!!!!.

3: Rigidity
- Small ram airs are better than small LE kites because they have a semi-rigid structure produced by bridles and internal cell configuration. This improves consistency, stability of turning, and precision in handling. Kite makers like Naish, Cabrinah ( see new Contra kite ) North ( 5th element) , and Slingshot are actually moving to make their kites MORE rigid by joining the struts firmly to the leading edge using bridles!!!!!!. See 5th element, and adaptations of on this forum.
-Rigidity also facilitates turning. Bar pressure TWISTS the WHOLE kite, speeding up turns. Lack of internal rigidity means that LE kites can't turn as aerodynamically as Ram Air kites which use a proven bridle structure for support..

4: Wing tips
- the tips of the inflatable kite act as rudders, slowing down the kite, with less control on turns (and therefore smaller more controlled power spikes)

5: Foil shape
- Ram Airs have a consistent foil shape because they are semi rigid by the use of bridles. LE kites deform and change their foil shape which causes an inconsistent aerodynamic profile......jelly fishing etc.

6: Luff curve
- If you want a flat luff curve, choose an X3 or similar
- If you want a deep luff curve, choose a Rhino2 or similar
- If you want in-between, choose a Slingshot or similar
- One ram air kite can now do all of the above in one kite by the use of different settings, See Psycho 2, or Voodoo kites that allow for different kite shape settings depending on you riding style and wind conditions.

7: Relaunch
- This is a BIG Issue. Beginners find relaunching inflatable kites very hard and it takes MANY sessions to learn this skill.

Rams Air can reverse launch,
Rams Airs can launch directly downwind in the water,
Ram Air kites can Solo or assisted launch at the side of the window like a LE kite with no drag
Relaunching inflatables is way too hard and was a design lemon patented by 2 ignorant French men 15 years ago ……there have been no new advances in LE designs since then……
If you are an experienced kiteboard rider ask yourself when you last droped your kite in the water. Probable you have dropped your kite in the last 10 sessions on the water. So why are you flying and inflatable kite????, as stated above Inflatable kites are an inherent design flaw? Really have the French ever come up with anything good in designs?,???

8: Safety
- Ram Airs are safer than LE kites because
-- LE Side launches are bloody SCARY for a beginner
-- Pump UP kites deform, twist, explode in the middle of the power zone etc when they are downwind of obstacles, in rotors, and in VERY gusty conditions. This is VERY dangerous. Some of the most frightening kitemares I've witnessed have involved LE kite users walking along beaches in cross-offshore conditions - their kites have been virtually uncontrollable and have endangered both the rider and other beach users.
-- Wind dropouts and gear failure
--- You will invariably experience a few catastrophic gear failures (LE Kite exploding) and COMPLETE wind dropouts every year. If you are a fair way offshore, you cannot use the inflatables as a "sail" to sail back in as it has exploded bladders. Alternatively you can use the Ram Air structure to support your weight, even with a punctured cell or two.
--- All LE kites become hopelessly waterlogged Once the bladder explodes- unlaunchable and certainly unable to support your body weight.
-- Surf conditions
---While it is always a gamble if your kite gets caught by a wave, at least you've got a chance if its a Foil to launch quickly. If it is a LE kite, it's all over.

9 Pre-inflating -----Beats Pumping ANY DAY of the week!!!.
- Rams are easy to pre-inflate
- With pre-inflation, ram users find it very easy to drift launch. This skill is often required eg Promontory/headland launches.

10 Resale
- Contrary to the propaganda of LE lovers, ram airs have 3 x the lifespan of the inflatos . The major determinant of a kite lifespan is marketing, now all LE kites are not worth much 2nd hand due to BEST and new LE marketing cheap products. There is no such player in Foils and you will get TOP dollar for you 2nd hand Ram Air kite that will last at least 200 hours flying time, see FS warantee

11 Repairs
- Ram air repairs are generally Cheeeeeeeeeeep. For example, most Foilr kites require little repair. Repairing a Bladder is like having sex with you Grandmother.....something you dread, something you dont want to do.....
Something you don’t want to tell your friends about….

12 Competition
Ram lovers have proved their claims in competitions. See Tobys Light Wind Weapon VId
Ignore the LE and PMU propaganda. Ignore the lies. Ram airs are aerodynamically superior to LE Kites and nothing can change this


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:05 am 
Drew,

Thank you for the review. I am curious about the low end for the P2 compared to the Titan. Is it a couple knots difference or greater?

I have a Titan 18.5 and I found it is best for wakestyle tricks. I can take it past zenith on the snow because you can land a bit stalled on snow without sinking, but I find it a tad slow on the water.

Sounds like you can get your hands on the goods earlier than the rest of us, so if you get an opportunity to review the 26 soon, please give us review.

Kenny


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